Hacker News Reader

Comment by taneq | Hacker News Reader

Question for people who own Pebble watches - have you read the Pebble privacy policy? They track a ridiculous amount of stuff (everything from your GPS location and activity to what other apps you run on your phone), log it indefinitely (literally 'for a period of time') in personally identifiable form, and reserve the right to sell your data to third parties. It baffles me how people can be OK with this.

View on HN

Yes, this isn't an alternative to Android wear or Apple watch, just more of the same. Fun fact: a few months ago I was looking for a wearable which had the option to store data locally - I looked at dozens of products and only three of them offered this. One needs a Windows app to transfer data over USB, the other is the Oregon Scientific Dynamo, which has a rather poor iOS app and is quite bulky and imprecise and the third one had a terrible companion app.

Everything else had a mandatory cloud sign-in and sync, with the typical meaningless privacy policy.

No. Apple may collect data but it does not sell it to third parties.

They do support CISA though: https://www.youbetrayedus.org/

They have not endorsed CISA. What the letter they (along with Microsoft) signed called for is legislation to allow sharing information about security threats, not personal information. It just happens that the only bill that does that at the moment is CISA, which unfortunately also has clauses about sharing personal information with the government.

Google may store your data indefinitely, but it doesn't sell it to third parties.

Yet. That we know of. IIRC the way the relevant EULAs are written they could do if they wanted to.

I can't say I've actually read the EULA, but they do have a nice Privacy FAQ, which I assume is nearly as legally binding: https://support.google.com/work/answer/6056650?hl=en

"Google processes your data to fulfill our contractual obligation to deliver our services. Google’s customers own their data, not Google. The data that companies, schools and students put into our systems is theirs. Google does not sell your data to third parties. Google offers our customers a detailed Data Processing Amendment that describes our commitment to protecting your data."

Another way to look at it might be, given your data is one of their biggest assets, it would be foolish to sell it.

Google doesn't need to sell it to third parties, because they are the only party they need to monetize your data.

There is not way to prevent the watch from sharing such information ?

You could use a free-as-in-freedom app on your smartphone like: https://github.com/Freeyourgadget/Gadgetbridge/

Nothing for Unix systems ? I would not want to use Android for this kind of things either :/

You mean for Unix phones (a la Ubuntu Phone)? Or you want to tether it to your desktop/laptop? Either way the Gadgetbridge source should provide a good starting point if no existing software is available.

Ubuntu Phone could be OK as well, but I'd prefer to tether to my laptop for example, with command line tools if possible.

GadgetBridge is the only reason I haven't canceled my Pebble Time Steel order. Hopefully I'll have time to help out with the project once my watch arrives.

I'm OK with it. What do you want to know?

I guess I just don't understand how you can not be bothered by the fact that your watch (or more accurately, the companion app on your phone) is constantly uploading detailed, realtime information about your life to a third party? Are you hardcore in the 'nothing to hide' camp? Do you just not believe that privacy is important?

If you're fine with Pebble knowing everything about you, are you fine with them selling all of this information to anyone they choose?

And given the ongoing litany of security breaches and data leaks, even if Pebble never use or sell your data for anything, are you fine with your information becoming public knowledge if Pebble ever get hacked or have their database leaked?

Some day we may just have to accept ubiquitous surveillance as the price for technology, but I don't think we've reached that point yet.

I'm struggling to care that apple knows I spent last week sleeping in Clapham, but this week sleeping in White City. I don't mind that it knows I went out near St Pauls last night. I can't even say that I'm worried if it could work out who I was out with (although frankly for that they can just read my whatsapp messages in the phone backups).

The part I would have a problem is selling that information. Because frankly I've paid enough for the phone so they can sod off. I don't own a pebble, but imagine I'd feel the same.

Now. I figure y'all have the right to get upset about the information being stored, and should have the right to opt out. But personally I'm more interested in getting worked up over other things that I want to change.

I actually am just not _that_ interesting and i can't see what anyone could want to really know about me...?

I mean I'd care if it turned out my credit details were being uploaded and I'm not trying to be funny, but realistically I struggle to see the value in my data

I guess there is a difference between "Company X" has my data, and "Anyone can buy my data from Company X".

I wouldn't like if my ex could go and buy my location data of Pebble. Or my boss, or a burglar.

Or your insurance company.

I just don't find GPS locations that big of a deal. I've been sitting for a few minutes trying to come up with sinister things one could use the data for and can only find one: burglars seeing when I am not at home.

.. and even in the unlikely event of Pebble selling my data to burglars who rob me it would be a tale on its own probably worth more than whatever they can steal from me. ;)

You can always block internet access for the app.

The problem is that the app needs internet access, and access to much of your phone's data, to provide the watch's useful functions. You can't just block internet access without disabling apps that require online data.

That's no excuse for them to then upload all of that data to their servers for monetisation and possible sale.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com