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Comment by ta0967 | Hacker News Reader

I also can't imagine how you wouldn't go buy a hundred VWs and meticulously take them apart and understand them after getting brutalized in the diesel market.

every miniscule detail of the VW car is patented. if you infringe one of those patents accidentally and VW sues you, you'll get slammed with damages proportionate to money you have made or VW has lost (thanks to you). now, you basically cannot infringe a patent incidentally after you've seen it at work. competition buying a bunch of VW cars to take them apart would be an invitation for VW to sue them for willful patent infringement and the accompanying treble damages.

you can read accounts on the internet of programmers working for major corporations (Sun Microsystems among others IIRC) who were prohibited from reading others' patents for exactly this reason.

it's a thouroughly corrupt system.

edit: "the holder" -> VW + some styling

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> competition buying a bunch of VW cars to take them apart would be an invitation for VW to sue them for willful patent infringement and the accompanying treble damages.

As someone noted above, every auto manufacturer is buying the competitor's cars, tearing them down, figuring out they work, rebuilding them, and benchmarking.

The last point is key - you can run your internal tests against their vehicles and see how you compare in your tests.

You can also get a feel for how many molds/stamps/etc that your competitor has in their factory by looking at the mold IDs. You can figure out how tight their weld tolerances are by X-Ray'ing the welds. There is a wealth of information inside a competitor's product that goes beyond the IP.

> You can also get a feel for how many molds/stamps/etc that your competitor has in their factory by looking at the mold IDs.

Also known as the German Tank Problem[0]

Allied intelligence, trying to estimate the extent of Panzer production, used estimates based on serial numbers of various components in tanks that fell into their hands.

From Wikipedia: "Estimating production was not the only use of this serial number analysis. It was also used to understand German production more generally, including number of factories, relative importance of factories, length of supply chain (based on lag between production and use), changes in production, and use of resources such as rubber."

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_tank_problem

The auto industry is so incestuous as it is. If patents came to play at all, which they didn't, then the big money play would be for GM, Ford, etc.. to buy VW motors and or license the technology. Either build as good a diesel or if you somehow couldn't then buy it or the technology. There is tons and tons of precedence for it. (Heck, the Ford "PowerStroke" diesel wasn't built by Ford for the first half of its life) Auto competitors work together on tons of stuff and with something like a motor that has fuel demands, it's mutually beneficial, if Ford and GM sell small diesel cars, it's more likely there will be diesel at your nearest pump. GM and Ford build heavy diesel too, there is very very real demand if they can improve power, improve mileage and meet emissions and VAG doesn't compete in that market.

None of that happened, I think the competitors knew and I also think the EPA knew in some capacity and it wasn't until some "small time" researchers got attention that it came out.

Or: mutually assured destruction. They all have something on each other.

Perhaps it's just the US with the throw weight to go after Toyota and VW in the most widespread, newsworthy issues.

It's also helpful that these are foreign car companies.

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