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Comment by bigiain | Hacker News Reader

Seriously? You think it's the _clock design_ that's absurd, and not the school and cop's ignorant reactions?

Should I be convicted of a "bomb hoax" for this? https://www.flickr.com/photos/bigiain/5162711688/

Note my description from five years ago shows somewhat more considered-but-not-carried-out intent than this kid...

I think you are 100% wrong. People who assume anything vaguely electronic that they don't understand must be "terrorism" are the problem here, not smart kids building things out of what they have at hand with whatever aesthetic they like. In my opinion, it's the school and the cops who were yelling "fire" in this movie theatre.

And this isn't the first time "the authorities" have go this just as badly wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Boston_bomb_scare https://boingboing.net/2007/09/21/mit-student-arrested.html

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Considering this[0] is what an actual bomb looks like, practically every student at every school could be carrying a bomb.

The teacher he showed the clock to in the morning is kicking himself for not telling the kid to leave it with him and pick it up at the end of the day. He knew what the administration/other teachers would think if they saw it.

What if it was a bomb. Or the timer for a bomb that was already planted? And the news today was "14 year old brings bomb to school, teachers save day"?

The situation was not handled well at all by any of the adults involved. But schools are a scary place. You've got a building with a generation of other people's children in it. And some times people do bad things in those buildings.

Someone should have looked at that clock and said "yeah, this is a clock. No big deal. It doesn't even look like a real bomb, but if it kind of looks like a TV Bomb, maybe don't bring it to school next time." and then everyone goes on their merry way.

Unfortunately, adult ego got involved.

[0] http://www.oddthingsconsidered.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/0...

Just a note--an IED in a backpack is what IED looks like...that's the whole point of an ied--strategic ambiquity, right? Your larger point is correct, tho, that adults should have sacked up and handled this thing immediately. Common sense being 20/20 in hindsight.

Well, just writing "BOMB" on a card board, and boarding a plane with it, would be enough to get you arrested in the USA; we've seen examples close enough.

First,

go try joking about explosives in security line at the airport, or at the white-house, or the local federal courthouse. Its not the joke you are getting (going to be) arrested for, its not the absurdity, its not the freedom of speech you are exercising. Its also not racist or whatever...it is just not the context for jokes.

Second,

The <carrier-device> for the "timepiece" is straight out of a B movie. see, eg

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+is+a+gun+briefcase+look...

https://www.google.com/search?q=what+does+a+bomb+in+a+breifc...

Dude, it was the size of a pencil box. If comically tiny briefcases are such a cause for alarm... man, you guys are swept up in a culture of fear.

First - he never mentioned, joked, or claimed anything about explosives (but the cops carefully framed that as him "not being forthcoming"). The only people talking about explosives were the "adults".

Second - when did it become "OK" to handcuff and question children without lawyers based on what b-grade movie makers choose to use as stereotypes?

(Sorry you're getting downvoted so hard - I disagree but would rather discuss and understand your position than downvote you to oblivion...)

http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-wozniak-in-jail-fake-bo...

Sure - Woz built a metronome - then realised it looked a bit like part of a bomb, and intentionally modified it to look like bomb, then hid it in a locker and purposely rigged it up to tick faster in the expectation that it'd be found.

That's a _lot_ further down the path of "intent to create a bomb hoax" than "building a clock".

(And personally, I'm of the opinion that putting a schoolkid in jail for what Woz did was ignorantly overreacting... Quite possibly because I was that same kind of schoolkid who'd make that same silly decision. Hell look at my Flickr photo's comment - I thought it would be hilarious to do that at 43 years old, it's just experience and perspective that stopped me building exactly what Woz made...)

point being that questioning a kid and releasing him are not that big a deall. perp walk is OTT. but stuff happens...look at woz...people do dumb shit like that...same thing as sarcasm in security theatre at the airport...justic is working OK when people get pulled aside...contrast to the way the police publicly execute black people for holding a toy or a telephone...those cases seem alot more egregious in many ways. I don't mind playing devil's advocate here...i think some discussion is warranted. no worries.

> point being that questioning a kid and releasing him are not that big a deall

Depriving someone of their liberty, even for a few hours, is a big deal. That's why compensation for wrongful arrest runs to $5,000 - $10,000 per hour.

this hinges on good faith and ignorance of the law. you can legitimately arrest suspects under the auspices of 'suspiscion' of a crime (eg, murder). Whereas false arrest is an arrest contary to known fact.

In cases of bomb threats and security breaches, qualified immunity is going to provide significant leeway when dealing with IEDs. Since most high-schools have strict anti-weapons rules, you can get arrested for a swiss army knife. Again, this is not the same thing as an apologia for a perp walk of a 14 year old. But if you want to see a "false arrest" look at what happened to the Blake last week in NYC. That was an unreasonable takedown of a private citizen with no effort made to establish identity; and a violent arrest for a non-fleeing suspect in a non-violent crime, etc.

In this case you are dealing with an "IED" vs an "Improvised Timekeeping Device", and since the former often includes the latter as a component part, its not completely baseless. This is why you cannot fly with liquid water on an airplane--the security forces cannot distinguish (on-sight) "legitimate water" in a clear bottle from several chemicals (aslo clear) than can be combined into an explosive IED that will puncture a pressure hull of an airliner. If you insist on taking your water through security you will get it removed or be arrested.

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