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Comment by mlissner | Hacker News Reader

Structured Settlements are the ridiculous deals whereby I buy money that's owed to you for pennies on the dollar. Say you reached a settlement that pays you $500/month for 30 years, that's $180k over 30 years. But if I offered you $20k, today, you might take it, if you had developmental problems.[1]

Well, structured settlements need a judge's signature to go through, with the theory that the judge reviews the deal to make sure it's fair.

Except this guy just went ahead and forged the signature.

[1]: More on this here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/how-compa...

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Technically the structured settlement is the original settlement, the $500/month. What this guy forged signatures on were transfer approvals.

The charges against the paralegal are one thing, but probably more interesting is the fact that since none of these transfers had the judicial approval mandated by the law, none of them are actually valid. Not sure how easy it is to go back and undo or redo all those sales.

Right, flipped that in my mind. Thanks.

A structured settlement is a settlement that pays in some fashion other than a single lump sum (commonly an annuity). Many people choose to turn these types of long-lasting cash flows into cash today.

As is so often the case, some annuity purchasers pay inarguably fair prices, and others don't. Some engage in fair dealing and some don't.

milliner's accusations are akin to a claim that Wells Fargo is a predatory lender because payday loan shops exist.

sorry I didn't keep up entirely with this story, who is Milliner that you refer to in your last paragraph?

"Developmental problems" is a funny way of describing people who understand the concept of present value.

The linked article (which was on the front-page some time ago) was about scammers going after people who had structured settlements that they had won due to suffering brain-damage and developmental disabilities from lead-poisoning. So literally true...

Accepting $20,000 for a cash stream worth $180,000 doesn't indicate much understanding of present value.

It may make perfect sense. For example, if you're unemployed and receiving 20k right now would give you a chance to move + finish a course + get stable employment. That may be a much better solution than getting regular small payments that only give you a bit of breathing space every month on top of your benefits.

But that's only assuming you can invest the 20k in a reasonable way.

Even if it's totally worth it, surely you can get a better deal than effectively taking out a loan with a 100% interest rate, or whatever it works out to.

Edit: 30%. Not quite 100%, but still really bad.

Can you get a 30% APR loan if you have no job or savings and credit rating close to 0? Payday loans are 300%-1000%. People would go for the 30% loan you mention instead if they could.

In a typical situation, no. But this is very much atypical. The person in question has a guaranteed source of long-term income. It's better than any job; they'll never get fired, or get fed up and decide not to come in anymore. It sounds like you can even redirect the payments so they go directly to the company making the lump-sum payment. The only risk is bankruptcy by the payer. It ought to be safer than a high-quality mortgage or car loan, which right now are available at 4% or less. (My car loan is 1.11%, which is completely ridiculous and not all that unusual.)

"It may make perfect sense." I didn't say it makes sense in most situations.

You could put it on eBay and get a better deal than that!

Perhaps they have an opportunity that they can't get financing for against the 180k cashflow? It could definitely make sense. A question I love to ask people is, "would you take 1m cash today (post-tax), or a 1mm salary at a job for 10 years where you have to do the work?". For instance, I might take the 1mm and found a startup/speculate (unlimited upside, and -5mm downside), while someone else might take the 6mm (after taxes) over 10 years. It's simply a matter of opportunity cost.

Will you take 111k today or a job paying you 33k pa for the next thirty years? That's the ratio 20k : 180k. Oh and you can't go out and get another job - that 110k has to last the next three decades.

It's clear cut throat exploration.

And I utterly refuse to believe this paralegal just suddenly took it into his head to forge those signatures and everyone else at the company were poor naive innocent dupes

Companies love to set things up such that illegal activity is never ever ever tolerated, but at the same time set up metrics and goals that are impossible to meet legally. Then you just keep firing people who underperform, and the rest happens by magic. This lets them reap all the benefits of illegal activity, while letting low-level employees shoulder all the blame.

Your question is an interesting hypothetical, but I don't see how it's relevant here. How does "where you have to do the work" fit in?

Sure, it's a matter of opportunity cost, but taking $20,000 today instead of $500/month for 30 years is effectively taking out a loan at 30% interest. Even if it's worth it, you can do a lot better.

Perhaps. Or perhaps they got ripped off. We don't know enough from the hypothetical with no details except a hypothetical present value and full value.

We could know more if we looked into details of individual cases. Like, say, the Washington Post did.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/how-compa...

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