Comment by funkyy | Hacker News Reader

Comment by funkyy | Hacker News Reader

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I am disgusted with the media recently. All western media are portraying this in a A/B approach. Either you accept migrants without hesitation, or you are fascist animal.

Discussion is not allowed and despite growing public dislike of the process of accepting undocumented immigrants from war torn country that is full of ISIS fighters.

Manipulation (majority of pictures show only women, children and few poorly dressed males), public hate towards people asking questions - this is fascist in my opinion.

Unaddressed things like the fact that majority of immigrants are actually safe in Turkey and Lebanon immigrant camps, yet they decide to go to Europe for better life (so its not like they are in danger). Majority of young males getting to Europe (who in their right mind leaves their wifes and kids in war torn country to find a better life if that's the case? Or are they safe in immigration camps?).

Funny thing - leftist parties are actually shooting themselves in the foot as within 5 years we will see huge rise in right wing parties taking over majority of votes. The "right thing to do" took over "right thing to do to our citizens".

IMO this should be handled as follows: immigrants without visas get send to closed immigration camps, where they wait for paper work. If they pass, off they go, if they wont pass they can either stay in the camp or go back to the country of origin. This is how it was decade ago, not sure why all of sudden there was a change. Letting anyone in will cause rise in right wing movements fueled by increased terrorist activism from undocumented immigrants. Anyone saying "hey, this worked before" forgets, that before ALL immigrants were required to apply for proper visa before getting in, not like now, when they get them without any proper check so we dont know who gets in.

> Unaddressed things like the fact that majority of immigrants are actually safe in Turkey and Lebanon immigrant camps, yet they decide to go to Europe for better life (so its not like they are in danger).

This is false and it's easy to confirm, just read a bit about the conditions of these camps, the lack of food, etc, and if you want to see it for yourself, check YouTube, it actually has a lot of in person short docs about most refugee camps. That's what I did when I had that question in my mind, why would they leave those camps to risk their lifes, and it's mostly due to the lack of food, hygiene, healthcare, and over-capacity.

On a side-note, how can someone say something is unaddressed with the amount of information available on the internet? People just need to read a bit when in doubt and stop with false (and dangerous) assumptions.

> On a side-note, how can someone say something is unaddressed with the amount of information available on the internet? People just need to read a bit when in doubt and stop with false (and dangerous) assumptions.

I meant by mainstream media. They ignore majority of issues and keep misinforming people dependent on old age media.

>This is false and it's easy to confirm...

1) Some camps are actually good suited, its easy to make video/picture of bad state of them - depending on angle - but in general they provide survivable environment - good enough if you run away from your country worrying about your life.

2) Those camps receive huge amounts of foreign aid including cash. We are talking here about hundreds of millions dollars. If the camp is in bad state, then organizations so willingly sending money to those camps should finally start checking where they go. Its easy to throw money at problem through ignorant organization (what was happening in Africa since decades through "charities" completely misusing money), but why common folk in Europe should be taken responsible for their inability to account money they send? Why regular taxpayer needs to pay for mistakes of US, UK, France and Italy governments going in to the wars like in Lybia or Syria? Again, this is no A/B situation, there is many ways to deal with it and one currently offered is probably one of the worst as it will fuel right wing parties to promote separation from EU structures.

And videos like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFiumADzwdI are of not help as this shows that immigrants intentions might be way off. Even some old Syrian refugees are against current migration explaining, that the only reason for it is to get on social welfare. People that own properties and are considered wealthy in Syria.

There is a huge difference between seeing an informed documentary and seeing an out of context video. For example, it's quite possible these people were rejecting food and water because they were tired of being beaten and hold up by the Hungarian police/military, as seen in lots of other videos. One should see these videos with an open mind and not with a preconceived idea because that's how it got us to be surprised by a young child drown in the beach when hundreds of others already had had the same fate or when we start saying they should stay on the neighbouring countries when, in fact, they already are, millions of them.

Obviously these people will behave like any other people would: in a possibly desperate and irrational way. Some would do some things they shouldn't and might end up in jail for it, some will not. It's up to each individual to fight in their own way.

Regarding your first point, you should really read about the United Nations World Food Programme which is the organism in charge of paying for all the food in these camps. From their own page[1]: "The World Food Programme (WFP) is struggling to meet the urgent food needs of close to six million displaced people in Syria and in neighbouring countries. Food operations are severely underfunded, meaning that WFP has been forced to reduce the level of assistance it provides to refugees across the region." More[2]: "1.7m Syrian refugees face food crisis as UN funds dry up". I have never been hungry in my life but it mustn't be what I would call being "good enough". I agree they are not dead though, just hungry.

[1] http://www.wfp.org/emergencies/syria [2] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/01/syrian-refugees...

And how exactly do you suggest to tell which is an informed documentary and which is out of context?

The easiest way is to try to look for confirmation or a denial of what you just saw. But in the given example all you have is a few minutes of video footage which doesn't give you any context. So in a documentary, you would expect those people rejecting water to explain why they are rejecting it, while in that video all you have is the images without any context. That's obvious, I'd say. Now, given this, you would be surprised by what people might say they are doing what they are doing, as shocking and uncomprehensible as it might seem in a video.

For example, I was having a lot of questions about the situation in Calais, France, why would there be people looking to risk their lifes to go from France to England? Seeing a couple of documentaries on this situations with interviews with some of the people there, I got a completely new insight into what's happening there.

The difference between a few minutes footage and cherrypicked longer footage is just money.

Just because it looks comprehensive doesn't mean it's not trying to spin a certain story.

I'm thoroughly sickened by masd media constantly trying to make it about little girls or shaggy people.

The footage from Hungary might be out of context, but one thing is visible - people there are perfectly fine physically. They are healthy, well fed. This alone should be enough to make one go "Hold on. This is weird"

And if they are rioting because they are being detained until some basic documentation can be set up, then well, fuck them. They come to our home and are already pushing our patience - we were kind enough to not go Saudi Arabia on them. They are not being instantly deported, nor shot.

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