Hoffice: work at someone's home
hoffice.nu
hoffice.nu
"Collect all people in a circle; you might want to start with a moment of mindfulness (try e.g. the app Insight Timer and chose one of the shorter guided meditations)."
I meditate and even use that specific app, though only as a timer... and I still would never impose a guided meditation on visitors to my home who are there to work.
It borders on religious proselytizing.
"A good one to start a Hoffice day is e.g. 'Being Infinite'."
I don't know anything about the content of that, but I have a hard time seeing how it would be appropriate for a secular, professional gettogether of strangers from different backgrounds.
If I went to a Hoffice thing and the host put on a guided meditation about "being infinite," I would maybe join because sitting quietly for a while is nice... but I wouldn't come back. If I want to meditate on infinity, I'll go to a temple, or sit on my bench at home, thank you.
Religious gatherings are cool. Working in a "spiritual" environment is nice. On such retreats I especially like the part where you work quietly, together, without talking... and I like how there are formal breaks for tea. I definitely think workplaces can take inspiration from monastic communities.
But this just seems awkward. I realize I'm just talking about a little tip from whoever put up the website. I'd rather watch a video of a kitten in a box or something. Kittens are infinite too!
Sam Harris is big in meditation, and he is as secular as it gets.
He makes the claim that the meditation techniques of Theravada Buddhism can be taught in a secular way, and he probably has a point. He recommends books by Buddhist teachers, since he believes that Buddhism is a kind of scientific spirituality... and Buddhist retreat centers, since those places are the only "serious" places where meditation is taught.
He attributes his capacity as a spiritual teacher to the long Buddhist retreats he did in India and Nepal. Some of his insight also came through psychedelic drugs. He also recommends books by Terence McKenna and Rick Strassman.
He's an interesting and well-spoken guy, but I wouldn't exactly call him an icon of secular reason. If Noam Chomsky ever records a guided meditation, though... that would be interesting.
Since sometime in the late 1800s there have been pretty strong movements of what's often called "Buddhist modernism." A scholar of Buddhism named David McMahan wrote a good overview called "The Making of Buddhist Modernism" explaining the historical forces that shaped this development. It's also related to movements sometimes called "Protestant Buddhism."
The Buddhist movements in the West have mostly been strongly influenced by such modernization. And there is a kind of spectrum of religiosity in the way Buddhism is practiced in these contexts. The secular mindfulness movement is an offshoot of a highly secularized form of Buddhism mostly transmitted from Burma via a group of American meditators.
And so on! I mean, it's a complex topic, and the contemporary notion that you propose is definitely an oversimplification.
But out of the same reasons, which you discuss below, our Hoffice group in Copenhagen dropped to use meditation, as some new attendees didn't appreciate it. As you say: Hoffice as a concept doesn't need any spiritual exercise.
We might remove the reference from the homepage in a next iteration of improving the text.
Thanks for the differentiated feedback!
Sorry, that's a little abstract, I'm just trying to indicate some kind of reasoning for why I would complain about something which is really a nice thought and that I can really imagine working well, if the attendees happen to be interested in mindfulness meditation.
Actually I was thinking about becoming a host myself. I happen to have a little "meditation room" in my apartment, where I sit and meditate during my break. It's certainly nice to offer such a place for anyone to use. Like in some airports they have a room for sitting quietly.
But yeah, I'm totally on board with how it's just an example of something people can do if they want to, as hosts. I think it'd be better if it was displayed more as an example, you know?
"But even though there is a structure, you are very welcome to ignore it, keep working while the others take breaks, come and go whenever you want. The structure is there to help us, not to limit us."
The hoffice model means you can look for hoffices that provide a guided meditation or, equally, actively avoid those hoffices. Or you could host your own hoffice that doesn't provide that stuff.
Sitting quietly and relaxing or focusing the mind is nice, which is why I do sitting meditation frequently. I just don't want to do it in an unrelated group setting, along with a dharma talk that I can almost guarantee ventures into some kind of metaphysical or spiritual territory.
Probably the "Hoffice" thing just isn't my cup of tea. The suggested break activities also include giving each other massages, doing "goofy" workouts, and some eye contact exercise that seems kind of creepy.
No. No, you cannot. At least, I've never heard of any. Stop begging the question.
> The suggested break activities also include giving each other massages, doing "goofy" workouts, and some eye contact exercise that seems kind of creepy.
I would agree that those are a little weird.
The point is that the suggestion comes on too strong, with an analogy to religion, not that meditation and religion are inextricably connected.
It's very similar to something I was toying with last year, but didn't get beyond the drawing board. The items that stopped me:
1. Cash-flow. I just couldn't make the numbers work. It didn't add up to a profitable business, and I didn't have the cash to plow into it on a whim -- nor did I want debt, or to go looking for an investor. Maybe your financial considerations were less stringent than mine. I had time, and no cash, so I was prepared to invest hard work... but like I say, I couldn't get the figures to work.
2. Security. This was a real issue -- I didn't get beyond the drawing-board though, perhaps in the Real World people are more trusting than I thought. How could I guarantee that my "guests" wouldn't wander into an unlocked "host" area and steal items? I couldn't. If I put safe-guards in place, I'd lose market appeal: my "guests" wouldn't want to give me strong guarantees of their honesty (Photocopies of passports? Large cash deposits? Nope, that would scare off customers, and give me further problems regarding data security etc.) And the "hosts" would always balk at my inability to provide a guarantee that nothing would get stolen.
The corollary of security is insurance. Do Hoffice or your "hosts" need any sort of professional indemnity insurance? If someone trips on a loose carpet and breaks an ankle, they may sue -- but who? And how would that pan out?
To be frank, item 2 was what really put my idea on ice. I think item 1 could be fiddled, particularly if a project such as Hoffice is slow-burn, low-income, and highly-automated (so you don't need to tend it manually).
How did you deal with these issues, in particular the security/insurance aspects? Genuinely interested.
2) I think you are overthinking the security aspect. It's like hosting a party; you don't check the identities of acquaintances that people bring along, and usually nobody steals your jewellery.
2. Hmm... maaaaybe. As someone who needs professional indemnity insurance for my work, perhaps my Spidey-senses are set too tingly for this risk. To test your analogy: would you be happy running a hobby business that facilitates parties, without understanding insurance aspects? I'd hate to get the phone call "So I used your service to organise a party, and now my house is trashed." :) Silly perhaps, just testing the edge-cases.
You are talking about public liability insurance (in the UK), as I understand it's not required but it's a good idea to have this if you have members of the public (clients or otherwise) visiting your home office - some home insurance policies even include it.
Yes it does, and certainly when you let others into your house like these people are doing. And just as well - I wouldn't want the parking hassles of several additional cars if one my neighbors did something like this (well theoretically, because where I live right now I wouldn't have such issues - just saying that there are good reasons for zoning regulations about things like this).
https://www.sba.gov/content/home-based-business-zoning-laws
> Most zoning codes:
> Restrict the numbers of visitors to a home-based business
> Restrict the number of employees working in the home or prohibit employees altogether
> Restrict business parking or require that additional parking be provided
[...]
> Restrict or prohibit nuisance impacts (e.g., noise, odors, glare)
http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/68844
> The fact is, unless you've taken the time to thoroughly investigate your city and county zoning regulations, you're leaving yourself wide open to the type of scenario mentioned above. Your business could be shut down before it even sees the light of day-or, worse, shut down when you're already in business.
In terms of taxation I believe that there is no real threat, as one of the basic premises is that you host without charging money for it. It's a gift to all people participating. In return you get the a group feeling and motivation to work from your guests. Furthermore Hoffice includes a potluck lunch culture, where everybody contributes to a buffet. As home working as such is not taxed, I don't see why homeworking together should be.
Neat idea indeed, I have lots of places at my home, and sometimes I wish for a "colleague" , when I am working from there.
I need to do the same when I invite other people to work from my home, even if no money changes hands.
Domestic insurance tends not to include much in the way of public liability insurance. Since you're inviting people into your home it might be something to look at.
http://www.confused.com/home-insurance/guides/home-insurance...
http://www.intouchaccounting.com/resources/guides/working-fr...
But if I am inviting you in my house, put a table at disposal, wifi, meals, etc, unless you pay for this, there is no legal implication. Not even insurance.
That's why I was asking how much it costs. From the website it seems like a hobby and not a real business, like hosting people in house to work from there and be paid for this.
There may be tax issues with hosting a Hoffice, even if you as a host don't charge anything.
If a UK tax inspector walks into your private home, does it look like a private home? Or does it look like a business? If it looks like a business, they'll investigate you.
"You mean to tell me, you don't know any of these people? And you simply let them use your facilities and wi-fi?"
If I was a tax inspector, I'd be all over you. It would reek of tax evasion and money laundering.
But why would the tax inspector even hear about it, right? Simple: your neighbours complain to the local council about all the cars parked on your front lawn. Then the council comes knocking on your door to ask if you've got permission to display that sign in your window.
You may come out of an investigation clean, but the process will be horrible. It would be good to thoroughly understand your position as a Hoffice host in advance.
I know people who run businesses from home that involve occasional visitors, and these are all legit concerns here in the UK. I also know people who've got away with it for years, taking cash-in-hand payments, and keeping the council and HMRC in the dark -- personally I haven't got the temperament for that sort of "excitement" in my life.
Ten years ago I went every Thursday to a friend and we were 10 people playing CS or whatever in a really nice lanparty. What is the difference now? Hey, Mr Inspector we do a codeparty ( hackaton would immediatelly trigger other responses from law enforcement ).
As long as there is no noise, no disturbance of any kind ( maybe cars in fron door, but here we speak of highly urbanized areas ), I see no reason why any law enforcement would knock on my door.
Like I've said, it's not whether it is a business, it's whether it looks like a business that will attract tax inspectors.
A tax inspection is not trivial. If you come out clean, congratulations. But if you don't relish the prospect of the tax inspector saying to you "Okay show me your accounts plus invoices and receipts for everything for the past 5 years", followed by several weeks of accoutancy grind-work, then it's wise to be prepared in advance.
Cars on the front lawn and a sign in your window are definitely reasons that the council (not the law) may visit you.
Okay -- I'm done with this. I've said my piece :) In summary:
1. Good luck Hoffice! Looks great.
2. Hoffice and hosts, understand your responsibilities regarding tax and insurance.
3. Tax inspectors and council inspectors are real, and they knock on doors of people like you and me every day.
4. You should try to predict tax/legal liabilities beforehand.
5. Saying you're legit doesn't prove it. Proving it does :) And that can be a real headache.
Edit: typo and formatting.
Summarizing, I see this problems with Hoffice: 1. Zoning problem, ie. legality of work-from-home. 2. Tax and liability of the host/guest - who is making an income or profit here? 3. Is this a business or not?
On the whole, this idea is quite not regulated and might be that everything is on fringe of law or in a gray area.
On the same time, indeed, wish good luck to Hoffice. I hope the have attraction and this might be more common than we think.
The difference is that working people are using it as a location to work from. This is true even if the property owner isn't charging them money to work there. It's commercial activity.
There's definitely insurance complications! You're inviting people into your home. That means you're now liable for their health and safety even though you're not charging them. If they trip and injure themselves they claim against you.
About tax: there are also "rates" (In England these are called "Council Tax") which are affected by home offices: https://www.gov.uk/council-tax/working-out-your-council-tax
I'm not saying that taxes are definitely different. I'm saying there's a strong possibility and it's surprising the hoffice website doesn't seem to mention it.
http://www.markelinternational.com/regions/germany/products-...
There is a debate here about whether or not Hoffice counts as a business, and whether or not a Hoffice host would have to pay tax. To my mind, these are moot points:
1. It will look like a business, so a tax inspection is a possibility, no matter how remote.
2. Hoffice and hoffice hosts need to understand the legal situation if a guest decides to sue.
You could probably be a Hoffice host for years and never have a single problem. Or you could be the unlucky one, and encounter these issues.
I suspect the tax and insurance situation will be complicated, added to which I'm not sure I want a bunch of local weirdos coming round my place. The social pressure to accept someone you don't like is going to be large - it's hard to say to someone whom you can probably bear in a social setting, no I could not stand 8 hours of your personality. Then it's easier to shut the group down than to have that conversation
However I sort-of like the "state your days goals" thing - it is an attempt to be inclusive. My own experience is add a non judgemental / "these things take longer" but at the end - in a normal team structure I find daily reporting is counter productive because most worthwhile things take more than a day, and either folks get disheartened because they don't have something to say, get trapped by saying things are going better or further than they have, or simply don't try the good stuff and stick to smaller chunks.
Personal bugbear there
Have searched the net and while I found some they were significantly more expensive than Airbnb to the point where I could just as well rent a place on Airbnb just for a long days work.
I hope one day we can get a quiter version of this or an option in Airbnb to post and search for "quiet desks, no breakfast neeeded".
I'd far prefer co-living in a place like that, especially if it had integrated daycare and larger living/working spaces, rather than just co-working at someone's house. Throw in a person that runs errands like picking up groceries and I'm sold.
I don't know if something like that could ever take off in the US because everyone wants a big house and their own yard and privacy and driving everywhere. But it also seems like the work-from-home crowd is also seeking more simplicity, how nice it would be just to walk your kids down the hallway, not worry about food so much, so, maybe.
I think I read Denmark has places like this, and it's also rated the "happiest" nation for whatever that's worth.
If there is no events going on right now, you might want to host one at your own home?!
Or people may feel a change of environment is important to them to help them switch into work-mode.
The desk-rental business is huge.