Mining Hydrothermal Vents on the Ocean Floor | Hacker News Reader

Mining Hydrothermal Vents on the Ocean Floor

nautil.us

36 pointsdnetesn19 comments

This is really cool. Our desire for technology has touched so many places on earth already, and finally we can take it back to our roots -- where life on earth began -- and destroy those ecosystems as well.

The absolute best part is that there's almost no oversight. No hippie can afford a sub that takes them to the bottom of the ocean, nor can they chain themselves to an underwater vent. Finally, resource extraction can happen without the interference of progress-hating communists and shortsighted government regulations.

Technically speaking, there're affordable underwater cameras: http://www.openrov.com/

Granted, out of the box they are corded, don't have an autopilot, and only rated for 100m dive. These shortcomings could be solved, if there's a demand for such submarines.

That is a toy. Hydrothermal vents are at 2000m - 5000m. Meaning that this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pisces_V Just barely reaches the shallowest of those vents.

Since pressure increases at 14.5psi per 10m.. your toy can only handle about 145psi. To reach the vents, it would need to handle 2900psi - 7250psi.

Edit: here's an MROV that can reach 3000m to give you an idea of the difference. It's a Triton XLX 150HP: http://www.fertoing.com/uploads/gallery/438/962/d0dec0e81bce...

It's used on an oil platform to monitor drilling operations.

Pisces V is a manned submarine that adds a lot of weight and price.

The toy I mentioned is unmanned (=> small) and could be placed in a different body, while reusing the same electronics and software. Not done, but certainly doable.

I updated my post with a link to an mrov that can reach 3000m

Thanks. It's unmanned and contemporary, which is closer to the point.

Still, it's designed for construction works, not just as a camera. From http://www.harkand.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Triton_XLX...

"The XLX is particularly suited for heavy-duty construction support, where remote intervention tasks are required such as positioning of subsea structures, pipeline/umbilical connection, pipeline repair, component change-out, valve operation, fluid injection, debris removal, plus many more. To enhance the capability of the XLX, it may be fitted with purpose built tooling skids weighing up to 3000kg (3 Te.) in air."

If we need just a camera, much smaller body is required.

Yes, right. There are no submersibles capable of reaching the vents that are not large and expensive.

It's not possible to simply take the toy you linked to and put it in a different body. I assume you want to see under the water -- you need lights. I assume you want it to move -- you need a better engine, propeller, etc. The body needs to be significantly larger and stronger if you don't want it to be crushed like a tin can.

>There are no submersibles capable of reaching the vents that are not large and expensive.

I think we both agree on that.

My point is that they could be made, if the goal is just monitoring. It could even be passive. No engines, no propeller, just a one-time way to throw the water out of the body to go up.

At a minimum, it's just a ball with a few video cameras, and a cavity that will hold the water, when it's going down, and keeps the air when it's going up. Even light is a nice, not must to have, because we're watching for other submersibles, which emit their own lights.

I still agree that it's not simple. I have not used this word in my statements above.

I call Poe's law!

People have been going on about mining the ocean floor for decades. The entire industry was arguably born out of a disinformation campaign (see Glomar Explorer) and has been bouncing in and out of fashion ever since. Every new player pulls up some rocks, build a few spreadsheets, and starts arguing commercial viability. Look deeply at those spreadsheets and you will find assumptions that X Y and Z minerals will spike in value because at current prices it isn't worth the effort.

Yes, governments are now selling "permits" but how much has been actually paid? I suspect those buying these permits have yet to fork over any cash. The acquisition of permits seems just a marketing stunt to draw in new investors. And the anger by environmentalists is just yet more publicity.

If ocean mining has a future, it isn't in the depths. Valuable substances can be extracted at the surface.

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/514751/novel-material-s...

Well, we've been "mining" the ocean floor for decades, for oil. This, of course, has the advantage of being liquid so it's pretty easy to extract.

For other stuff, I have no idea whether it's economical yet and it probably isn't (especially since the prices of most commodities are in a slump right now) but the crossover point has got to come some day, so it's reasonable for people to be hanging around waiting for it.

Unless that crossover into viability is preempted by some other technology. Look at oil. Everyone was screaming about the peek in supply capacity (peek oil) but that inflection point may have been preempted by a reduction in demand (fracking, electric cars, solar etc). The viability of mining the seafloor could similarly be preempted by new tech.

Oceanfloor work has already seen one such preemption: manned operations. Back in the 60s-90s everyone was talking about sending people down, but that was preempted by improvements in robotics, especially fiber optics.

There are a few other exceptions and borderline cases. Some mines (mostly coal, but I believe the old Cornish tin mines were also this way) extend under the sea.

Near-shore mining has been producing gold in Nome, Alaska for over a hundred years. I imagine a gold strike as rich as the original Nome find would be economical to work at quite a considerable depth, and it seems almost certain there are some of those.

This just disgusts me deeply. Is there nowhere on earth that is safe from humanity's greed and disregard for the planet we depend on for our lives. In some ways I hope we never go intergalactic or even leave our solar system - perhaps the universe will quarantine us before we can infest the rest of it.

I would much rather us go mine lifeless asteroids than destroy geothermal vents.

The solar system (and systems beyond it) are the perfect solution to that concern. Massive asteroid belts, lifeless planets and moons, jovian planets, and all of the rest of space's vast resources are practically limitless compared to what we have here inside the gravity well. There's no need to damage a planet's biosphere for resource extraction or industry when space offers us so much more once we get out there.

That won't stop a lot of very stupid people from protesting the one solution that'll actually solve these sorts of environmental problems, but that's going to happen regardless.

Interestingly enough, a lot of the engineering work for mining hydrothermal vents might have some interesting cross-applications for asteroid mining once we're outside of the gravity well.

Did the Chinese lose a submarine recently?

Did the Russians lose another submarine?

Paging Peter Watts.

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