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Comment by interesting_att | Hacker News Reader

Don't think this will change much. Taxi drivers get to choose how they do their job (i.e. who to pick up). Moreover taxi companies do not forbid customers from tipping nor do they get a percentage of a taxi driver's gratuity. Lastly, you can be a taxi driver at multiple companies, whereas Uber has sent messages to some drivers not to drive for both Lyft + Uber.

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Which is why taxi drivers continue to meet the definition of a contractor, while Uber drivers do not. Uber's entire model is built over the control they exert to enable the experience they desire. Without that control, they don't have a brand, but by needing that control, it prohibits their operating model (using contractors).

I think all of your assertions are wrong. Not only do Uber drivers have some ability to choose pickups, taxi drivers are usually required to pick up the passenger. Tipping is allowed with Uber. Uber does not take a percentage of tips. Many/most drivers drive for multiple services. I've never heard of the messages you reference.

In California, drivers are required to pick up passengers due to government regulation and not as a condition of employment.

Maybe things are different in CA, but as a driver in FL:

> Taxi drivers get to choose how they do their job (i.e. who to pick up).

I can reject any fare.

> Moreover taxi companies do not forbid customers from tipping nor do they get a percentage of a taxi driver's gratuity.

Uber doesn't forbid me from getting tips, and doesn't take any of the tips that I do get...

Does Uber define what sort of vehicle you can use? Do they provide any sort of guidelines or rules on how the work is done? Are you only providing services for Uber?

If the above answers are yes, they're breaking the law.

I almost never see anyone exclusively on uber, usually they are rolling with multiple phones mounted on the dashboard, uber + lyft + some others

>Do they provide any sort of guidelines or rules on how the work is done?

I wonder what constitutes rules on how the work is done. If I use a bike to pick people up and drop them off, and I not doing the work, or am I doing the work in a way that is violates the rules? If I pick people up and then drop them off in the wrong place intentionally, am I not doing the work or am I violating rules on how the work is done?

So is the car a specification for work or is it a guideline on how to do the work? Seems like CA thinks its the latter, but I definitely see the argument for the former. Its more clear cut in freelancing--the end product shouldn't indicate the type of computer that it was developed on. For Uber, the car is definitely part of the experience that you're being paid to provide as a driver.

Anyways, i'm not qualified to speculate about any of this. I'm just going to be unhappy if a decision similar to this somehow prevents me from making a few hundred bucks every now and then for driving drunk people home from bars.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employ...

> Anyways, i'm not qualified to speculate about any of this. I'm just going to be unhappy if a decision similar to this somehow prevents me from making a few hundred bucks every now and then for driving drunk people home from bars.

I'm not qualified to speculate either, I'm just going to be unhappy if Uber is permitted to continue to violate labor and transportation laws.

"Does Uber define what sort of vehicle you can use?" Extremely minimal like vehicle age and it has to pass a safety inspection.

"Do they provide any sort of guidelines or rules on how the work is done?" No. Suggestions perhaps but it's pretty much all common sense.

"Are you only providing services for Uber?" No.

And yet, governing bodies continue to rule that Uber is an employer. Go figure.

One non-governing body in one state regarding one person.

Isn't it the case that if you reject more than a tiny percentage of fares, Uber will fire you?

Not really. But I would wonder why you're rejecting fares? And is it ok for contractors to refuse to perform?

Then why does Uber tell its drivers that it will fire them for low acceptance rates?

> And is it ok for contractors to refuse to perform?

Of course it is. That's what a contractor is, the very definition: someone who has economic independence from the client, and therefore can accept or refuse any particular job for any or no reason.

Refusing jobs is something an employee can't do, however. And that distinction is one major reason why Uber's "contractors" are actually misclassified employees.

What about software contractors that are handed work equipment, required to work a minimum of 40 hrs (full time) and have to show up to an office. How are they not considered employees?

They are. If you are in this situation, consult with a California labor attorney.

Also report them to the IRS. You'll receive a portion of the taxes and penalties recovered.

http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/How-Do-You-Report-Suspected-T...

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