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Comment by kelukelugames | Hacker News Reader

As a Chinese immigrant I am always baffled when Americans visit third world countries.

Why? Your comment is baffling to me. Why are these countries not worthy of visiting?

It is very hard for us to come in the US. Things are better and safer here. When I got here I discovered that people travel to poor and unsafe countries for fun.

Things are better, may be right. But safer? With guns?

Guns don't kill very many Americans, compared to other causes. Even including guns wielded by police, guns wielded in warfare, accidents, &c.

I see your point now. I guess most travelers just want to learn more about the people and cultures of other places.

One of the common criticisms of US citizens is that they are ignorant of the world outside of US borders. I would argue there's no better way to learn about the world than to travel to places outside of your comfort zone.

Do people really travel outside of their comfort zone?

You're confusing "China" with "all third world countries"

Also, China was a Second World country (at least, back when the distinction still made sense).

Of course, at some point, "Third World" became synonymous with "poor", and was euphemised to "developing".

When Mao created the notion of the Three Worlds, he included China in the Third World [1]. It was (ostensibly) unaligned, whereas Europe (and to an extent Japan) was aligned, making it Second World. He (via Deng) specifically called out the Third World as underdeveloped.

[1] “Speech by Chairman of the Delegation of the People’s Republic of China, Teng Hsiao-Ping, at the Special Session of the U.N. General Assembly: April 10, 1974” (Peking: Foreign Languages Press, 1974).

I was unaware of Mao's Three World theory.

I had assumed that kelukelugames meant the phrase in the European sense of the term, coined in 1952 by Alfred Sauvy (according to Wikipedia).

Quite correct - I took Kissinger at his word [1] when he said Mao coined it. Kissinger tends to gloss over smaller details at times though, he's an excellent student of historiography.

[1] On China

According to Wikipedia, Mao's concept is different, despite the similar name. The term "Third World" comes from 1952 and was used to refer to countries not aligned with either the US or USSR, which would not have included China at the time.

In 1952 China was aligned with the USSR. It was in the midst of the Korean War of 1950-1953 where Chinese Communists funded by the USSR is helping North Koreans to fight against the South Koreans allied to the US.

The Chinese Civil War where the Communists were funded by the USSR and the Kuomintang were funded by the US just finished 2 years prior.

Sorry, double negative in my comment which is probably confusing. I meant that China was not included among the unaligned countries at the time, because it was aligned with the USSR. In short, yes, what you said.

But when Mao made his speech in 1974, that was way into the sino-soviet split.

Mao didn't invent the term...

Right, but China was technically third-world (non-aligned) at that point.

Or it was 2nd world (non-free).

Albania was communist but was classic third-world given its rejection of the USSR. China would have been under the same umbrella in the 70s. Of course, now the cold war is over and the term doesn't make much sense in its original context.

This appears to be the speech cited: https://books.google.com/books?id=c1hUAAAAMAAJ&focus=searchw...

There's likely to be a better source available to someone wanting to spend the time to find it.

>Also, China was a Second World country (at least, back when the distinction still made sense).

Yea, and Switzerland was "3rd world" back then.

Apart from tier-1 cities, China is indeed a third world country.

Wait... are you saying that it's baffling why Americans are horrified that so many Chinese people are prepared to commit murder for money?

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