Introducing JetBrains Toolbox
blog.jetbrains.com
blog.jetbrains.com
If I'm understanding correctly, there's no option not to upgrade and continue using an old version of the product under the new model - the instant you stop paying, the product can no longer be used (after the month has finished). Personally this makes me feel like I don't 'own' the software anymore - instead, I'm just renting it.
I'm also interested to see if IntelliJ IDEA Ultimate will continue to offer the other language plugins (PHP, Python etc) that allows it to do what the other IDEs do under this pricing model.
I'd have no problem with this pricing approach if it was available alongside the existing system - so developers who use many different languages can use the subscription service if they feel it offers better value for them. Developers who prefer the previous model can opt to continue renewing annually to receive support and updates. I'm somewhat surprised and disappointed to see JetBrains forcing everyone down this path once their existing licenses have expired.
We do however offer a switch to the new model if you like it and if you're interested in new versions that your perpetual license doesn't cover. If you do switch to the new model, you pay as long as you need to use a tool, and you always get the latest version.
IntelliJ Ultimate will continue to offer language plugins, nothing changes in this regard.
My understanding of the agreement is that you can use the software infinitely with the version that was available on the last day of the subscription term.
As languages and frameworks change, it seems inevitable that everyone who wants to continue working with the latest stable version will be forced to subscribe via the Toolbox (because the renewal of the perpetual license is no longer supported), at which point they no longer own the software they are paying for.
On the other hand, as languages and frameworks change, they will not necessarily be supported by your current IDE. In this case, with a perpetual licensing model you're simply left with a license that you don't use anymore, and you're buying a new license to another IDE. With subscriptions, you switch between them as necessary: either by cancelling subscription to one of them and subscribing to another or by maintaining a subscription to all IDEs (which will also be available starting Nov 2.)
I'm not sure I really follow this bit, would you mind clarifying?
I currently have a perpetual license for PhpStorm. Throughout the year, I'm aware many RFCs are created for the PHP language which may or may not be accepted and be incorporated into the language. Currently, I feel pretty confident in knowing that if a language change is made, the PhpStorm developers will update the IDE to support it and I'll be able to download the new version at no extra cost (assuming it was released during the year following the day I purchased the perpetual license).
Would there ever be a situation where this is not the case? Surely PhpStorm will always support the latest version of PHP, unless you're planning on a separate Php7Storm IDE or something?
Also, you can still be pretty confident that as a language support by an IDE (PhpStorm in your case) evolves, new versions will be supported by this very IDE, and we don't have any plans to release a separate Php7Storm :)
I was referring to a different kind of change where you might switch from PHP to Ruby, from C# to Java. C# and PHP are naturally not the best combination to support in the same IDE, meaning you might switch your tools as you go from language to language.
But you can also be confident that 5 years in the future, if you stop paying you will have only 1 choice:
To use the version that supported PHP 7, a deprecated, unsecure and phased out version (or at least, that's what I expect from PHP 7 by the year 2020).
In the past you had the peace of mind that you could continue using the version that supported PHP <current - 1> if you stopped paying.
That peace of mind was one of the most important features of PhpStorm, a feature not implemented in the software, but in the licensing terms.
I just bought 2 more phpstorm corporate licences last week, for a trial to see if my two top guys like it, with a view to a departmental rollout. Now im going to have to unload that project as we could never justify a model like this. Where we would lose access to our tools if decide to cut back on the tools budget for a while or stretch it out a bit.
the agreement is that you can use the software infinitely with the version that was available on the last day of the subscription term.
Is true for the old licensing model, but not the new model.
As far as I can tell (but JetBrains' attempts to spin this are making it hard to find a definitive statement) if you stop paying your monthly fee, you have to stop using the IDE.
Overall, this is a fairly hefty price hike with "reasonable" prices grandfathered in for current customers. Along with the price hike, you're actually delivering a less useful product as well - renting software is not worth as much to me as buying a perpetual license. Judging by the other responses here, I'm not alone in that. Grandfathering in existing users might seem like a good way to appease us, but we aren't stupid.
Jetbrains has always been good to me. I like your products and recommend them to other developers. If this licensing/pricing change goes through as-is, I will not recommend Jetbrains products any more. You talk a lot in the blog post about how great this new licensing model is for us - if you're serious about any of that, give us a real choice. Offer the old model alongside this one and see which one we customers find to be more useful. Anything less would be an admission that, better or not, you're forcing these changes on us without any concern for what we want.
I'm actually disappointed that JetBrains are trying to spin this as a net positive for most folk, when it seems clear that it isn't.
I love PHPStorm, but I'm not married to it. Once this rental plan goes into effect, it will be time to find something else.
It's a tough position for Jetbrains. I've got a lot of sympathy, the annual release + purchase model is very limiting - but changing to a subscription model comes with its own problems that you can't just brush under the rug by offering a promotional price and talking about flexibility.
The situation reminds me of this part from Ubik by Philip K. Dick:
Back in the kitchen he fished in his various pockets for a dime, and, with it, started up the coffeepot. Sniffing the - to him - very unusual smell, he again consulted his watch, saw that fifteen minutes had passed; he therefore vigorously strode to the apt door, turned the knob and pulled on the release bolt.
The door refused to open. It said, “Five cents, please.” He searched his pockets. No more coins; nothing. “I’ll pay you tomorrow,” he told the door. Again he tried the knob. Again it remained locked tight. “What I pay you,” he informed it, “is in the nature of a gratuity; I don’t have to pay you.”
“I think otherwise,” the door said. “Look in the purchase contract you signed when you bought this conapt.”
In his desk drawer he found the contract; since signing it he had found it necessary to refer to the document many times. Sure enough; payment to his door for opening and shutting constituted a mandatory fee. Not a tip.
“You discover I’m right,” the door said. It sounded smug. From the drawer beside the sink Joe Chip got a stainless steel knife; with it he began systematically to unscrew the bolt assembly of his apt’s money-gulping door.
“I’ll sue you,” the door said as the first screw fell out. Joe Chip said, “I’ve never been sued by a door. But I guess I can live through it.”
A knock sounded on the door. “Hey, Joe, baby, it’s me, G. G. Ashwood. And I’ve got her right here with me. Open up.” “Put a nickel in the slot for me,” Joe said. “The mechanism seems to be jammed on my side.”
A coin rattled down into the works of the door; it swung open and there stood G. G. Ashwood with a brilliant look on his face. It pulsed with sly intensity, an erratic, gleaming triumph as he propelled the girl forward and into the apt.
My company uses WebStorm regularly because it's a solid IDE for Linux; I've heard of Visual Studio Code running on Linux; have people found that comparable?
Your major options for a web development IDE on Linux would be Aptana/Eclipse and Netbeans.
Well let me be the first to say, this sucks. As a user (and lover) of Jetbrains products (pycharm, IDEA, phpstorm) over the years, I never though they would ever go down this path.
Paying annually for support and to receive upgrades feels very reasonable. My IDE ceasing to function because I've stopped paying annually does not.
But on the other hand, considering I'm already paying $158 for two of their products every year (IDEA and AppCode), being able to pay $149 (discounted rate) and also get a separate app for RubyMine and PyCharm seems like a very nice offer. (Since Ruby/Python plugins in IDEA always lacked few versions behind.)
Nevertheless, I'm sad that to see another one of my most-used software goes away from perpetual license to subscription model.
Good examples of the way to do this, include Cakewalk and Allegorithmic which both implement a form of pay-to-own. After enough payments, you own a product that you can keep using if you no longer need 'enhancements'.
Whilst software-as-a-service is great for many people, it's not a panacea and certainly not a replacement for people who just want a product that they buy once and can use when they like without further outlay.
However, from November, that will no longer be possible. If Jetbrains decides, in 2016, to increase the license fee to $300 per year, or $500, then we will have 2 options: Pay it and continue to have access, or don't pay, and lose all access to the tools, despite the fact that we have already given you money. If I have a cashflow problem, I can no longer decide to stay with last year's version for a while, instead I lose access.
I'm sure you know this, I'm sure everyone at JetBrains knows this.
However, I cannot subscribe under the new terms, and keep using the software if I decide to stop subscribing. Earlier in this thread you suggested that we could subscribe for a month and keep using the software afterwards. This is incorrect. Once you stop subscribing, you lose the rights to use the software
The whole point of the licensing change and the switch to a service is to remove the perpetual license. No money, no IDE.
Or even more likely (for an IDE that is ahead quite a lot): charge the same license fee, but don't supply any interesting new features.
This is one of my fundamental objections to the subscription model. In the perpetual license model, a company has to entice its customers every major version to shell out the money. How do you do this? By making the product even better. In the subscription model, that direct incentive is gone, the customer has to pay anyway.
> On the other hand, we think we’ll be able to concentrate on quality more than trying to impress users with new features so they buy upgrades. Our products are more than feature-full and we believe the quality is something that can always be improved.
Translation: We've run out of things that we think you'll actually want to pay for, so we've decided to force you to pay instead.
Not every compelling feature is implemented with code.
So now I'm stuck using PyCharm 4.x forever unless I pay a monthly fee to upgrade. And if I stop paying I lose access to my IDE? Truly an awful way to treat loyal customers.
I can only hope that JetBrains abandons this new SaaS model or has some plan to allow users to purchase either a perpetual license or a subscription a-la Microsoft Office.
If not, then I hope Atom or Sublime Text get some robust debugging plugins for Python like PyCharm has.
We where about to kit out our entire department with phpstorm but now its going to be really really hard to justify this. This is nothing about being more convient for customers, its about screwing more money out of people. I am very very disapointed.
Before November 2: First year: $199 a seat Each subsequent year: $129 a seat
After November 2: First year and each subsequent year: $119-149 a seat (with/without a promotion available)
Following November 2nd, a company has no choice but to cough up the yearly fee or the software stops working and the developers can't do any work without changing the software they use.
Yup, and all it takes is for an invoice to get misplaced or delayed in your accounts payable team and development grinds to a halt.
Under the old model:
- If the company moves away from a particular technology they can just keep an unsupported, but legal, license for the IDE in case they need to fix bugs, etc.
- If the company needs to improve cashflow it can defer upgrades
- If JetBrains goes out of business, you can keep using the IDE
- If JetBrains discontinues the product, you can keep using the IDE
- If JetBrains stops delivering worthwhile upgrades, you stop paying to upgrade.
- If JetBrains decides to unreasonably increase the upgrade price you stop paying. (edit: Added)
The benefits of the new model are:
- It's easier to account for the licensing cost as OpEx rather than CapEx, which matters to some businesses.
- It's easier to adjust your license costs in-line with your headcount. Hire some contractors? Add a couple of licenses. Downsizing that team? Drop some licenses.
Some organisations will consider that to be a beneficial trade-off, but many won't.
Keep the subscription model. Set the non-discounted prices for a year's subscription at the same price level that perpetual license upgrades were. The monthly prices can be higher, maybe 20% more for a year billed monthly than annually. Offer a 10% grandfathered discount to apologize to your current customers for forcing them onto a subscription model. Don't offer any kind of promotional discount on the "all the Jetbrains" package deal - it's already underpriced. I think that this is a reasonable compromise that allows switching to a subscription model without screwing over either old or new customers.
Additionally, be honest. Many of your customers and most of your users are developers. We understand the upsides and downsides of a subscription model from both perspectives. Trying to spin away those downsides will backfire and leave us feeling taken advantage of. You've spent many years building up all this developer goodwill, it would be a shame to lose it over something like this.
I read that whole release wondering if they actually believed that this was some sort of reaction to consumer demand or if they just think people are incredibly ignorant.
No thanks.
Surprised I didn't see a tweet that read:
"Dear JetBrains. I loved buying your product so much I want to do it EVERY month!"
If you're the kind of person who doesn't maintain their existing S&M subscription then it will end up costing you more, but typically this will break even for people that do regularly maintain them.
EDIT: Am I honestly getting downvoted because I'm not hopping aboard the wold-is-ending-because-subscriptions-are-bad circlejerk? I expect this kind of behavior on Reddit, not HN.
It's not like I'm telling anyone "you're wrong" for not liking the changes, but I certainly hope I'm allowed to state my opinion too.
This means that you have no control over pricing, and that JetBrains doesn't need to worry about whether you'll renew year-to-year if they don't produce upgrades that make your renewal worthwhile.
Long-term mutually beneficial economic relationships are rarely built on top of coercive models that give one party such an enormous advantage.
I am curious about "JetBrains now controls pricing". Haven't they always? If they raised their price outrageously for yearly upgrade model, they would lose customers, so that's true of new and old system. I have control of whether I pay their price or not, but they get to control the price, as always.
I understand to some degree that losing access to a tool is an inconvenience, but it doesn't strike me as a terrible burden. It's all just a view into the code, there's nothing irreplaceable about it. So renting compared to having guaranteed permanent access is a loss, but it doesn't seem that awful - but that's very different person to person.
Anyway, I am legitimately curious to hear more about this viewpoint. I kind of get it but don't have the strong visceral reaction to it as many others on here. Is it a use case difference, of people who skip upgrades versus those who don't and pay every year? Or is it fundamentally a philosophical stance on own versus rent?
Certainly a reasonable concern, it'd be nice if they implemented some kind of pricing guarantee. It sure wouldn't alleviate the concerns of everyone, but I think it'd go a long way towards showing goodwill.
Sure they do: the languages JetBrains IDEs support are also supported by other IDEs, free and paid. If your renewal doesn't leave you in a better position than the other alternatives on the market, you'll leave for some other tool.
I bet you think cable TV is a bargain too considering the literally thousands of channels you receive...
I'd prefer to pay for what I need... and keep it. And update when I feel I need to.
> I bet you think cable TV is a bargain too considering the literally thousands of channels you receive...
Why are you putting words in my mouth? I explicitly do not pay for cable because it is outrageously expensive and I watch a fraction of what I am forced to pay for.
I already pay more for these tools I use than I would be paying under the new plan, and I've been looking at buying CLion too. This is a net savings for me, personally.
I am sure (much like the cable company does with "introductory" rates) that JetBrains was careful to set an initial price point that makes this a competitive offer.
The problem (as better stated elsewhere) is that the relationship is changed going forward. If they decide to raise the rates you are now left with the decision to continue at a less advantageous rate or have no product at all.
In addition, you assume that a major release per year is an inevitability. There may very well be no compelling reason to update... but it won't matter in this instance because you will pay no matter what.
teacup50 did a better job describing this...
Fortunately, there's a little thing called competition that prevents raising rates at will without facing the consequences, and JetBrains is no exception: we're no monopoly.
I'm sure different product teams here at JetBrains will adapt to the new model in a different way. My hope is that the change will contribute to a focus switch from a race to provide new features to ensuring better stability, performance and UX.
Should add this to the press release. Would make me feel lucky to be a customer...
Customers are incentivized to keep ponying up for a subscription, because the alternative is a costly transition to other tools.
JetBrains, like any other business, is incentivized to maximize profits and minimize costs.
Customers assign value to avoiding costly disruption. That means that JetBrains is incentivized to lower costs by reducing the amount of value they otherwise provide to customers.
This is the very definition of "rent-seeking" behavior, and it's scummy.
I'm not left with any such decision, they have explicitly stated in their FAQ that the 'existing customer' rates will continue indefinitely as long as the subscription is maintained. Sure, this means if I cancel I lose my special pricing, I'm not blind, but I don't see it happening.
> In addition, you assume that a major release per year is an inevitability.
I don't assume any such thing. I do not renew my licenses every year solely for the purpose of getting major new releases, point versions of current releases are part of the S&M as well, and getting left without bugfixes or support is not an option.
But I reject the idea that getting more of something I don't want makes this any more palatable.
Edit: If you charged me 10 bucks a month for 0xDBE I wouldnt be able to get it approved even on a good day. Charge us 500 a year then the check would be cut that afternoon.
So new users are getting shafted an extra 30 bones on top of what I pay. So in solidarity with new users, thanks but no thanks. Pretty bogus if you ask me.
> 9. Can I use my personal license on multiple machines?
> You may install the license on more than one machine but it may be used on only one machine at a time. To run multiple installations simultaneously, each instance requires a separate license.
https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb (#9 under License Types and Users)
Will I still be able to run multiple instances of ReSharper on the same machine? This is pretty essential to my workflow. For example, I have three instances of VS2015 open at the moment: One for my Unity project, another for a C# plugin, and a third for the installer. ReSharper runs fine in all of them.
I can also run these on my Windows machine while having IDEA open on my Mac. (Actually the Windows machine is a Parallels VM, but same difference.) Will this capability go away? That would be unfortunate.
JetBrains needs to reassure us multiple instances are ok on same machine and across VMs. Will running the IDE in OS X and also a guest Linux VM look like multi-machine use? If so, that's really a bad flaw in licensing.
If you encounter a case when a setup like this doesn't work, please contact JetBrains and we'll look into resolving the problem.
If this is legit and I can run IDEA on the host machine and in one or more VMs on the same machine, that would be a very good thing for multiplatform developers.
Co-using IJ and ReSharper should be fine as well, as long as it's you and only you using them.
On the flip side - IntelliJ comes out with a new version every single year, and if you don't upgrade you are kind of screwed (At least as someone who codes latest cut of Scala)
So not a big change to my wallet, but it does make me sad a little.
current model: purchase new upgraded version of resharper every year (or two). abandon old version.
new model: subscribe to resharper. upgrade when new version comes out. abandon old version.
Is anyone really using a copy of resharper 6 right now? and VS2010?
I also have phpStorm but I didn't upgrade this year as I'm not doing as much PHP development anymore. However, I still use it to make changes to old code bases.
Now you have to keep paying whether they add features or not.
The initial buy-in is cheaper for many products than it was previously, so for new developers they have to have some ability to retain people to even break even with subscription licensing.
The annual subscription seems to be more expensive than the current per-upgrade add-on price for most products, though. And, of course, there are some, like WebStorm, where the annual subscription price is more even the new-purchase price under the old model.
So, its kind of a mixed bag.
We're used to helping users of commercial licenses who are faced with delayed payments in their companies, and I'm sure we'll be doing this with the new model as well.
I can see October being a huge month where people buy perpetual copies of tools they were thinking about buying in the past.
If you are upset by this change, please let Jetbrains know! Customer input has helped companies reverse similar policies in the past.
You can quickly customize and send it out here (this site has been a side project for me): https://www.sincerelyme.org/everything-else/jetbrains-subscr...
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It's also copied into the post below:
Email at: busdev@jetbrains.com
Facebook at: https://www.facebook.com/JetBrains
More at: https://www.jetbrains.com/company/contacts/
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Dear Jetbrains,
I am writing to express my thorough disappointment with the decision for Jetbrains to switch to a subscription based model. While I understand the need for businesses to monetize, I feel that this monetization strategy is completely over looking the needs and desires of your historically loyal user base. I could understand this decision if your products were serviced-based or hosted (i.e. cloud) solutions, but as a stand-alone, desktop software this decision only serves to benefit one party.
Not only are you questioning historically loyal users by continuously asking them to show their support for your product, you are literally devaluing your product by requiring me to repurchase it on a recurring basis. No longer do I have the option to purchase a high-value, life long, perpetual license for your product. I do not understand how Jetbrains can drag themselves to the ranks of often, lackluster subscription based software.
I have long been a loyal and vocal advocate for Jetbrains software and customer service. Your software does make my job easier and I do enjoy using it. Your customer support and involvement with your loyal community has long been top notch. I often go out of my way to explain why I love using your products, like Webstorm and PHPStorm, and have convinced many people to switch to Jetbrains. After this decision, I have no desire to continue advocating your historically incredible software and intend to make it very clear to potential users of how you’ve decided to treat loyal users.
This decision shows a lack of empathy for the community you have worked so hard to build and I am extremely concerned about your future considerations of myself and the rest of the community. Unless Jetbrains decides to amend this new policy with consideration for traditional, perpetual based licenses, I will no longer be purchasing new offerings. I will use the current version of software. When I feel they are no longer suitable for use, I will look for alternatives offering perpetual licenses or simply use a text editor.
Again, your software does make my job easier and I do enjoy using it, but I want to make it clear that I do not need to you your software. There are plenty of acceptable alternative IDE's and, of course, I can always use a standard text editor.
I hope Jetbrains can recognize the error of their ways and address this issue in response to the community. I want to continue enjoying your products and advocating for a historically incredible brand.
Sincerely,
{Your Name}