The Third Generation Nest Thermostat
nest.com
nest.com
Nest largely created this market, and their product is fine. But since the Nest appeared their competitors have upped their game and in my opinion overtaken the Nest. For example the "Honeywell Wi-Fi Smart Thermostat," same price as the Nest, arguably easier to use, and doesn't require a third party app or website to get basic things done.
Nest might win awards for simplicity and design, and it is still better than traditional black & white thermostats with push buttons, but it definitely isn't leading the market at this point, in fact I'd argue Nest is sacrificing the user experience for the sake of that design.
I can teach my grandparents to use the Honeywell Smart Thermostat, I cannot say the same about Nest beyond the basics.
Does the Honeywell integrate with your utility to provide you rebates if you use their load shedding program? Does it have AirWave (the nest calculates how long it can keep running a fan over cold coils after shutting the compressor down to keep cooling your home while saving energy)? Does it integrate with Google Now? Does it show you the history of your heating or air conditioning over the last 7 days? Does it have an API you can interface with?
My 86 year old Grandmother loves her Nest. If she can use it, anyone can. Nest second place in the market. Puh-lease!
The tap through menus are anything but pleasant. Just watch this video:
https://youtu.be/YD3DfoJ3TVw?t=7m24s
To use a phone analogy it is like using a Nokia 3100 to write text messages, tap tap tap A, tap tap tap B, tap tap tap C. You have to do this literally in some cases to set the name.
Contrast that with this:
https://youtu.be/CmvX6YgAqMI?t=1m18s
To use the phone analogy once again, this is like using an iPhone to write text messages.
One is a modern accessible UX not dissimilar from a smartphone, the other is clunky and dated, you're working around limitations of the physical design.
> Does the Honeywell integrate with your utility to provide you rebates if you use their load shedding program?
Neither the Nest or Honeywell do.
> Does it have AirWave, integrate with Google Now, an API
It is a thermostat. It might have some of these, but they're beyond the scope of what I expect or would use from either one.
It does offer history, most smart thermostats do.
> Nest second place in the market. Puh-lease!
That's what people said about Blackberry too. I think touchscreen interfaces are a proven technology that consumers love.
The Nest could come back from this, they can offer additional product lines that address what their competitors are doing.
Some people legitimately do want a minimalist product. There is a real market for that. Others want a straight forward product with an iPad-like UX.
The Nest sales numbers are terribly high compared to Honeywell, and Nest has Google behind it. I wouldn't want to be Honeywell.
Limited sample size but between three furnace + air quotes proposed in August 2015, all three contractors recommended the Honeywell and all three contractors dismissed the Nest as a gimmick with lackluster functionality compared to the Honeywell.
Are you saying the Nest now has direct integration with utility real-time programs, or is this just a rebate check you get from your utility for buying the setback thermostat?
Your house gets a couple of degrees warmer but you get a discount, your utility doesn't need additional generating capacity, and Google charges a fee to run the program.
Many of these utility programs actively recruit customers, so chances are (a) you'll get a chance to sign up even if you own a different type of connected (e.g. WiFi) thermostat, and (b) the sign up process won't be hard.
https://rrtp.comed.com/live-prices/
I was asking if Nest can observe and respond to that data, which it looks like it still cannot.
But even old cheap digital thermostats with chicklet keys know to run the fan after turning off the furnace or AC[1].
And your Grandma won't even have to use it because it will maintain perfect 22C all year long due to its dual cooling/heating outputs.
If you literally mean using it as an on/off switch... I don't think you can do that without just cranking the temp between min and max. There is a function to run the furnace fan for X minutes, but you can't directly tell it to run the heating and AC for a period of time.
I set up SiriProxy a couple years ago, mainly for the Nest support. I think that broke with iOS 7 though.
The "fail safe" mode here needs to be "maintain moderate temperatures, neither burning nor freezing". Simple mechanical thermostats do this extremely well.
But they don't have api with which to auto post your daily temperature to tumblr. Or security vulnerabilities.
* "It’s slimmer and sleeker with a bigger, sharper display"
* "Now the Nest Thermostat does something new. It’s called Farsight and it lights up to show you the temperature you’ve set or the time. You can even choose a digital or analog clock face."
https://nest.com/support/article/How-can-I-tell-which-Nest-L...
They appear to have both reduced the brazel size and increased the display's size. Additionally it is a little thinner than the 2nd gen and massively thinner than the 1st gen.
Definitely an improvement at the same price point.
Sure, but not a big enough difference (for most folks) to consider upgrading from a 2nd-gen.
Agreed, but thermostats really shouldn't be something we have to replace every 1-2 years anyways.
Hell, I've a v1 (.12) Nest and see nothing compelling to make me upgrade - and that makes me happy.
Neither are phones and laptops, really. The difference is that those advance at a rate that makes an upgrade compelling. I have a Mid-2009 Macbook Pro. It's fine. I put an SSD in it recently and it's even better than fine. The only time I get the impulse to replace it is when I'm near a newer Macbook. In a vacuum, it's all I'd ever need. Sadly (for my wallet), it doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Wiring up a Nest isn't too bad, you just need the precious C wire. Most of these fancy thermostats require the C wire for electrical power, and many homes lack it. They have a work around, but it requires re-wiring and you lose some functionality (do not recommend).
PS - No idea why nobody offers an AC adapter as an alternative to the C wire. All the C does is provide electrical power anyway...
[0] The middle white thing: http://i.imgur.com/kNUPqvF.jpg
Just because you CAN do something doesn't mean you SHOULD. This is definitely one of those cases. If you want your Nest to be running problem free on most systems (or any other smart thermostat for that matter), just assume you need the C.
[0] https://nest.com/support/article/When-Nest-needs-a-common-C-...
There are lots of reasons why most fancy thermostats need a lot of power. For example, a fancy screen is hungry, WiFi is an expensive protocol (e.g. as compared to ZWave), etc.. Compare the Lux screen to the Nest, and you'll see at least one reason why they think they can get away with batteries.
Another option, patented by Honeywell I think, is called "power stealing." Here's an interesting article on the subject: https://www.ecobee.com/2014/01/the-problem-with-power-steali....
Are you talking about re-purposing the G wire to become the C wire? I had to do that just recently, and I lost the ability to cycle the fan on by itself (without calling for heat or cooling). Not a big loss in my opinion, but my system is dead simple.
The most infuriating thing about it is that the previous HVAC installer cut the fifth wire off instead of sparing it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8supIUj6c&feature=youtu.be...
I don't need a thinner version with a larger screen (it's nice, but it's not a smartphone and I don't think most people will care).
Tesla gives you a better car with ota firmware updates. How come a thermostat startup with Google's resources can't do the same thing or better?