Is College Really Worth It?
fastcompany.com
fastcompany.com
During that time, I've quadrupled sales in my ISV and have made a full-time living of it, and I now have no debt and decent savings. I'm no Mark Zuckerburg, but it's not a bad start.
But I still kinda feel like a loser without a degree, even if I don't think I'll need it. Especially since I paid so much for the first couple years. I applied to another school (public this time) to transfer, just in case I come to my senses.
I think there's credit bubble in education just like the one in housing. Lots of easily available, subsidized money for student loans, even if the rates aren't great. Plus it's a platitude that there's no sacrifice too big you (or your family) can make to get a college education. So even reasonable, well-meaning institutions have totally wacky prices, just as a reaction to market forces and a desire to stay "competitive" building fancy new stuff.
This sounds really crazy and tin-foil-hat-ish, but sometimes I think that there's kind of a "educational industrial complex" if you will that's benefiting from this weird (hopefully temporary) situation, and I feel icky supporting it just because I'm afraid someone will judge me wrong without the piece of paper some day. One of the reasons I quit my job after I quit school was because I hate that feeling of knowing you're being fucked over a little bit each day because you don't have the balls or resources to do anything about it. I feel like school is that kinda situation now, and it shouldn't be, because there's a ton of good things about college and I want to finish.
I'm on of the only few with a technical education and I always have a hard time explaning that "yes I did go to college" (I'm from Sweden so it's called University but its not the same as in US), "but I did not graduate".
Their eyes flicker, and I'm instantly degraded to that basement guy with big computer screens they know so well from highschool.
I know very well that my life in very many aspects would be other peoples envy. I organize my days myself, I pay my own salary and I can divulge on whatever project I choose.
However, many people equate a steady paycheck with safety and responsibility. Two keywords that are atleast here in Europe quickly becoming very hot.
I definitely feel like I've managed to be "successful" without completed college (yet) I make a decent salary, and I can see that growing in the horizon. I also feel well respected and needed by my coworkers, and family. However I completely agree with the opinion above. While part of me wants to complete it for the sake of ensuring future employment. My main reason for wanting to finish is to gain that last part of self confidence i'm missing.
A second reason, one that is less mentioned is more social. I try to skirt the issue when talking to people, but (even more on the east coast) people tend to think of myself differently when I tell them the truth.
I actually had a 3.8 GPA before my last semester. Going back immediately after dealing with a brain tumor/surgery kinda screwed things up, though I should have been theoretically unaffected by it.
A friend of mine who is far more successful than I'll ever be and shouldn't even be using "go back" and "school" in the same sentence, just went back, and after a semester, he's done again. So I dunno.
I think there have been some pretty big changes with how companies, jobs, and credentials work ("High Res Society" kinda stuff), and the culture will lag behind 10-20 years.
1. The cost of attending a private vs. public university does not include financial aid. For many middle-income kids, the actual price of attending a private university is often less than that of attending a state school, because the private university may give you a full ride based on need, while the state school has much less resources to spend on financial aid.
2. The "17 years to make up the difference" figure is based on starting salaries, but it doesn't account for raises that occur soon afterwards. Many of college friends went into financial, software or consulting businesses at around $55K/year - 4 years later, they're now making well over 6 figures. Many of my high school friends went into local or boutique businesses at around $50k/year - 4 years later, they are still making $50k/year, or worse, they've lost their jobs because of the economic crash.
3. "1 out of 2 students fail to correctly analyze prose" - ironic, because of the inaccuracies in the infographic...
The numbers spent partying/drinking/videogaming seem about right though. I think it's pretty likely that college is a bubble, but I don't like to see some of the financial myths repeated. If you get into Yale and you get decent financial aid, you should probably go, because that degree is worth a lot more than one from UConn, and the people who write for FastCompany often have no idea about the inner workings of the financial aid system.
As a result, schools such as Harvard[1] and Stanford[2] pay for all tuition for students with a household income of less than $60,000.
[1]: http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/financial_aid/inde...
I went to High School with a guy named Chris. He dropped out of college to do programming work, and I stayed on, eventually going to grad school.
Now he's the founder of GitHub and I'm some no-name programmer working for a financial company nobody's ever heard of.
More to the point, does college really have any particular impact on such matters? If Bill Gates had finished his degree, would he have still been as successful? If Don Knuth had dropped out, would he have still been as successful?
I wasn't really trying to make a point past pointing out that the comment I was replying to didn't really say much.
EDIT: and really even with the forcing learning is not guaranteed.
Now, I'm not saying you're unqualified or wrong to make that claim — I merely would like to know what you're basing that statement upon. I see a lot of people make statements like this one based on a few prominent data points, completely ignoring the vast number of data points that don't fit their claim. It seems wrong, especially for a community so hell-bent on accurate, useful data.
I incredibly, firmly disagree with this. The average person actualizes maybe - maybe 3% of their potential. It's possible for almost anyone to reach high level domain mastery in at least 2-3 fields in their lifetime, and make a at least a couple profound contributions in those fields. There's some hard tradeoffs involved, but it's something that almost anyone is capable of if they want it.
What I meant to say was that if everyone went out and achieved 100% of their potential, it wouldn't be impressive anymore.
We all have the potential to achieve roughly equal results, but what stops most of us is desire and persistance.
Obvious of course, but kind of true. Everywhere else (except maybe at Google), you have to deal with the uneducated masses :-)
It dawned on me at my last cube farm that some companies really are like high school, while others are like college.
Not true - there's plenty of places where most of the people you'll meet are quite intelligent, and not everyone in college are college-level smart. If you go to Harvard, sure, it's all fairly smart people. The average state school? Not so much.
As for places with lots of smart people, it's very worth it to go get coffee at the Ritz Carlton sometimes. It's $10 for a pot of coffee that'll serve 2-3 people, so it's only like $5 to go if you go with a friend or the girlfriend, and it's good coffee. There'll be smart people there from out of town, often having a quick bite to eat alone while reading a newspaper. Contrary to popular belief, wealthy people tend to be very friendly and approachable if you're polite, complimentary, and interested in striking up a chat - I've met a fair few intelligent people while having coffee at a nice hotel or ex-pat bar or other place like that.
If you're willing to try to charm a little bit too, you can probably talk your way into the business class/first class lounges with decent success when you're flying, and people inside tend to be a smart, a bit bored, and quite receptive to having a conversation.
There's lots of places to meet smart people. University is good for some smart people, but not all. I enjoyed some of the business and technical classes I took, but absolutely went nuts with the "general requirements" and the rote busywork it entailed.
So there's lots of places to meet smart people besides university. And seriously, I'd recommend anyone who isn't comfortable in "wealthy places" to go have a pot of coffee at the Ritz Carlton. It's $10, cheaper than a mid-end restaurant lunch. Strike up a conversation with someone. Might change your life, but at the very least you get more comfortable in the environment.
Before I do, let me share the general theory about life - most people are decent people and want to help you if you're nice and a decent person. They don't want to get in trouble though, so you want to make it as easy as possible for the person. So, if there's multiple people there, you have much lower odds. People want to help out, but no one wants to get reprimanded obviously.
But let's say it's one guy or girl there. You walk up, smile, greet them, ask how their day/night is going. They say good, good, maybe you smalltalk for a moment. Be as personable, friendly, and courteous as possible.
They ask for your boarding pass. You have two choices now - hand them your boarding pass and just SMILE huge, or, say something along the lines of - "Well, I'm flying Jet Blue today, but they don't have a lounge, and I always take British Airways internationally - I'd just like to grab a cup of coffee for like 20 minutes before my flight if that's cool, and I'd really appreciate it."
Which to use? Kind of a judgment call. Handing them the pass with a big, guilty smile actually works. "Go right ahead" - oh my God, I love that, I feel like James Bond if I pull that off. But I did the Jet Blue thing flying out of San Francisco - I forget what airline lounge I got into, but it was legitimately one I flew a lot. Either British Air or something Star Alliance, Jet Blue didn't have a lounge, so I just told them that and asked nicely, the girl there waived me in.
Don't take it as a given, be friendly, and remember you're asking for a favor. You're not entitled, so don't be a jerk or demanding or act like you're royalty. Helps if you're dressed well, groomed well, and speak generally upper class English - nothing snobby, stay casual, just "Good morning", "Good evening", things like that - they want it to be a nice ambiance inside, so looking like you're not going to cause problems is critical. Again, most people want to help you, but you need to make it easy for them to do so.
So, be incredibly polite and friendly, and there's a decent chance of things working out. I usually try it if I'm an hour+ early, and I don't know what my success rate is - maybe 50%? Maybe more or less. It all comes down to the individual person at the counter, how their day is going, and how full/crazy the place is. If it's not very full, they're a nice person, and having a nice day, you've got a decent shot. Can't hurt to ask, at least.
You really think Google is the only company with uniformly well-educated employees? Microsoft, Goldman, McKinsey, etc - there are plenty of companies out there where you'll smart and educated colleagues.
However, some important work and innovation absolutely requires higher education. For example, you are extremely unlikely to learn linear algebra and matrix theory "on the job", while running a startup, or even if you are just relaxing at home with nothing else to do for a few years.
tl;dr: don't go to college, but expect to have your
horizons limitedWhy? All of the information is available in books and on Wikipedia. Nowadays you can learn nearly anything for free with just an internet connection and some dedication. The biggest potential impediment is be a self-defeating attitude that prevents you from trying.
On the other hand, don't expect learning "on the job" to mean that you'll get paid to learn.
Because of laziness. You are right that you can learn by just investing time, and the grandparent is right that almost nobody will bother when they can play videogames with that time.
It's no different from the situation before the internet, since books are cheap (compared to your time) and usually are still a better source of information on such structured subjects anyway.
In fact, when I was in college, I mostly read textbooks anyway instead of attending lectures (it's easier for me to learn this way).
This however is not the whole story. Even if you are motivated ("I'd like to learn math"), you are probably not motivated enough for some feats of cognition. If you know people who stayed home and studied math on their own for a few years, full-time, at college level (I don't), they are probably very rare.
I've learned a decent amount of mathematical stuff on my own without traditional books, and I'm pretty sure this will become more and more common over time. I'm a member of the earliest generation (b. 1985) for which this was really possible, and I just fell into it by accident, but in the coming decades I expect we'll see a lot more people who are almost entirely self-educated through the internet. I'm sure it'll still be a relatively uncommon phenomenon, but at least the people who learn best in this way now have access to the information and tools they need.
Happily the computer science articles tend to make at least a little sense. But then I already have a degree in the field.
There are people who can learn from encyclopedias, but most people need well-paced, linearly(ish) arranged material.
He had a hard time doing that and valued a lot direct contact with the teacher. It resonates with me because I studied engineering but love psychology too and when I learn let's say NLP from video-audio made by masters I learn way more that in the same authors books.
Books are very good when you dominate the subject.
90% of the communication is not verbal. Nuances and emphasis are very important.
I'll say one thing... college is definitely worth it if you're planning on working in the Medical field. I think hospitals only hire people with a formal education now-a-days ;) The same probably goes for sending people to the moon, building nuclear reactors, etc. There is a reason for colleges to exist, as sometimes the human race "needs" to make sure you know your @#$%.
Because it's a impossible question to answer, it's too broad and there are so many factors.
The Major and the school. Each and every one is so different, I don't really see if it makes any sense to even average them together.
Personal need and motivation? Are you there to learn and challenge your self, or for the social experience, or just to do the lowest possible to get a piece of paper that says Degree.
Indirect opportunities. For example meeting great researchers and professors and working side by side with them in some cases. Internship opportunities. Social networking and meeting people.
Causation vs. Correlation. Are people who go to college more successful because of college, or are those people bound to be successful anyway, they just happen to go to college.
Small tech company founder, still the guy who hires and manages the engineers. Just some background.
I used to think that Google's desire for graduate degrees was sort of elitist and not necessary. I've changed my mind, and here's why.
I work in a woodshop as a way to relax and have found an analogy for the education thing. I've come to believe that a well educated mind is sort of like a well organized shop; a self educated mind is like a messy shop.
There is no judgement intended, both neat and messy shops can produce excellent work, just as a self-educated person can produce just as good work as a formally educated person.
The difference is speed. At the risk of stretching the analogy, in a neat shop you can find tools quickly and make things quickly. A formally educated person uses the education to quickly make choices about how to solve problems whereas a self-educated person has to rederive a lot of those choices.
I've personally witnessed this in engineers that have worked for me and I'm moving towards wanting formally educated people. If you want to do well in the tech industry, I'd strongly urge you to get a formal education and cover the basics. If you have a CS degree and pointers bother you, you got a crappy degree. Ditto for basic language design, compiler design, OS design.
Just my two cents and you should probably ignore it because while I have a masters in CS, I also have a messy shop :)
Straight (no banks -- direct lending) department of education loans are 6.8% and 7.9% for the most common loans.
I'll pay over $95,000 in interest over 10 years on department of education student loans. I don't own a car or a house. I have no credit card debt. I came out of undergrad with $0 in debt.
This unexamined attitude of education as an unqualified good has already led a lot of young people overpaying for professional education of questionable benefit, and now to even more taking on unreasonable debt in pursuit of a bachelor's degree.
Is it worth spending 4 years learning about the history of your country and culture? Seeing a lot of great movies or concerts? Hanging out and enjoying life without lots of burdens before joining the rat race? Having the time to explore a lot of options to find out what you're really good at, or maybe discover some field or some country or some culture that you didn't know existed that changes your whole life?
College is what you make of it. It can be more than being trained like a lab rat. Some people even find friends who hire them later on!
Okay, I don't know the source, but this statistic seems reasonable to me. In fact, I'd venture to add a couple more (based purely on my anecdotal experience):
- One out of two students can't structure a well-reasoned argument.
- One out of two students are unable to write a readable essay.
- One out of two students do not know how to prepare for and deliver a speech.
My problem is not the state of State Colleges. The problem is the state of highschools in America (although we are not unique with respect to some of these problems). These are all skills that can and should be learnt before college.
I don't think many people take this kind of mercenary view of college outside of the Bush family, and maybe it's a more realistic view, but that's the perspective that seems to be in play when the question is whether it's "worth it."
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I think this is why the vast majority of people go to college.