Ask HN: What is the legality in private domain registration and GoDaddy? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: What is the legality in private domain registration and GoDaddy?

3 pointstallerholler7 comments

I want to purchase a domain for my startup but it is owned by what I believe to be a defunct company in Toronto, Canada. They owned a company with the same name as late as around 2010 but based on internet search, it seems like their business went cold around that time. The domain has been squatted on ever since. Now my stealth startup wants to purchase this domain as it is unused and hasn't been in quite awhile, but it is privately owned with the domain whois info pointing to:

Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.wildwestdomains.com Registrar URL: http://www.wildwestdomains.com Registrant Email: DOMAIN@domainsbyproxy.com

Domains by Proxy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domains_by_Proxy) is owned by Bob Parsons (GoDaddy).

There are two things I feel leave a bad taste in my mouth.

1) People are allowed to squat on a domain indefinitely, creating no value for the domain (or society) and inhibiting others from creating value with it. By allowing private domain registration, in encourages this squatting and to me it hurts the market with an opposite effect from "free market" where instead it becomes "closed market".

2) GoDaddy seems to have a conflict of interest and charges $70 (+ commission) for their domain buy back service. In my case, all they did after I paid it was email me to tell me the seller is not interested in selling and that it is a non-refundable fee. I have called the to complain and get my $70 back as I feel like they didn't do anything that is worth $70 (and ive spent well over $1,000 in the past decade with them), but so far they won't refund me.

It seems almost fraudulent that GoDaddy can both hide a registrant's true identity and then charge money to be a middle man with them and in probably most cases they just tell you that the seller isn't interested.

What are your thoughts HN community? Does GoDaddy have a conflict of interest or a shady business practice here? Should there be a change in laws around this? What can I do?

I think GoDaddy is pretty clear on what their domain service does https://www.godaddy.com/domains/domain-broker.aspx and what you're paying for. I agree it's too expensive but the service is to mediate and their first step, as outlined on the help page, is to reach out.

If the domain is squatted, didn't the squatter have a contact link? Their business is usually selling domain names after all. Maybe the squatter is using GoDaddy's anonymity service as a way to filter prospects not willing to pay money to reach them.

What you can try is go via GoDaddy again and increase your offer. Or another mediator, e.g. https://sedo.com/us/buy-domains/domain-brokerage/. If you're not willing to offer more money or the squatter doesn't want to sell then move on (choose a different name).

See comment below but basically I think it's owned by a now defunct Public Relations company in Canada (probably holding onto it for namesake).

I'm not going to choose a new name based on this. What I'm really getting at is the bigger picture of people being able to sit on domains and hold them hostage indefinitely AND be able to hide their identity. When someone buys a house or a building, it is public domain and they can't hide (in theory). Why isn't this the case for domains? Why is a private company like Domains By Proxy (GoDaddy) allowed to both hide the domain AND charge you to unhide it? That is the part that seems shady and definitely unethical to me.

Your theory is incorrect. If I used my Cayman Islands shell company to start and control a Delaware LLC to start and control a Wyoming LLC that actually buys the house, then it will be very hard for you, even in theory, to figure out that I was the one who "actually" bought the property.

You'll need a lawsuit or three to 'pierce the corporate veil'.

Or I can start a trust, with the charter of keeping the land as a wildlife sanctuary, keeping it out of the hand of commercialization. And I can do this through attorneys, and keep my name out of the public record.

What you see with domain names is very similar to what happens in real life.

I'm a bit confused as to exactly what your argument is with. You seem to have two issues - one with a WHOIS privacy guard, and the other is someone owning a domain.

1) Why did you have to pay GoDaddy, and couldn't you just email DOMAIN@domainsbyproxy.com to ask if they wanted to sell - it probably get's forwarded to their actual registered email. I for one like WHOIS privacy guards - I don't want my name, address, and mobile phone number freely available on the internet just because I have a domain registered for personal use.

2) Your analogy to public property doesn't hold up. I can buy property, and even if you know who I am, you can't force me to sell. Maybe I do own the domain, but I'm just not using it for a website - how do you know?

now defunct Public Relations company in Canada (probably holding onto it for namesake)

It might be owned by creditors now, who plan to use it later. Or plan to resell it. They're well within their rights to do that.

Change your startup name.

I dont want to change the name honestly. We do own the .io domain for it but the name is really good and particularly fits the application. I think it's being squatted on by the owners of the now defunct company in Canada by the same name (appears to have ended ~2010)

It's definitely a risk to continue though because if it gains traction we may never be able to acquire the .com

Additionally, because of the way things are set up where anyone can just hold a domain indefinitely, basically there are barely ANY available .com domains now which sucks for people trying to create things.

This isn't domain squatting.

Squatting is a 'bad faith intent to profit from the goodwill of a trademark belonging to someone else'. That's the legal definition. But they had the domain, they put it to active use for a legitimate purpose. It's no longer in active use. But they had no idea that you would want it. There's no bad faith.

There's also a looser definition that squatting has 'the primary goal being to prevent others from buying it, and the secondary goal being, in many cases, to profit from it.' But this loose goal has a problem - you are in stealth mode. Your own goal is to 'prevent others from buying it' until you leave stealth.

Plus, you do know that they aren't willing to sell, which means they aren't trying to make a profit.

Thus, this isn't domain squatting. This is 'someone has a domain that you want, but got to it first.'

You believe that a domain has to 'create value'? That's not a requirement, nor even a moral obligation. People also acquire a domain with the hope of creating a web site, only to find a few years later they never had the time for it. Or they had a company, the company went under, but they have the domain still because of the hope to start again.

Or, you know, some people have a domain name for email purposes, but don't have a web site.

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