Case in point: by wrecking the Copenhagen deal, China has helped the cause of liberty in the western countries by making it harder for governments in increase taxes and regulations on its citizens.
While I greatly respect China's economic system ("Socialism with Chinese characteristics"), there are very few definitions of freedom where China is more pro-freedom than the USA.
* Nobody questioned me on entry into china like I was a criminal
* Policemen don't walk around with guns like they are ready to gun you down
* When a girl removes her shirt, she she is not jailed in china
* When I drink excessively and start acting the fool, I am treated like an idiot in china, not like a criminal
I visited both countries. In china, people are happy and friendly. In American, people are trapped and unfriendly.
China feels a lot freeer than the United States.
Nobody forces you to stay with a tour or anything, it's not like North Korea. Of course, if you stick to a guided-tour, you probably won't see too much. If you leave the city, you can find plenty of backpackers.
The friendliness probably has more to do with the culture being more laid-back then political freedom.
Disturbing you have collected 8 upvotes for this utter nonsense. I challenge you to name any area of the country permanently off limits to foreigners. China is hardly perfect but what you insinuate is just BS.
At any other time, though, it should be fine. It's not North Korea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hukou_system#Household_registra...
Also, if you were upper class Englishman presumably no one bothered you on entry to India ca 1920, or made a fuss if you got a bit drunk. I suppose police would be quite nice to you as well. And all the natives seemed so friendly and happy.
* Most people I encounter are happy and friendly, even the poor and unemployed.
* I'm not accustomed to seeing police carrying anything more than a holstered service pistol.
* Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public (in this state).
* I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people.
* I've never experienced more than cursory questions on entry to the US, with 1 exception: returning to the US on Sept 14, 2001
Personally, I've lived in and visited enough places around the world that I would never reach a judgment on what a place is really like based on a brief visit, especially not a country as large as the US or China.
Indeed. Personally I find the recitation of anecdotal evidence for how "free" a country is to be bollocks. Alright, so the country "feels" freer sometimes, but that's not a sound argument for its actual freedom.
Have you tried this outside of a college campus? Pretty sure you can't.
More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
> * Not only can women take off their shirts without being arrested, both men and women can legally be completely naked in public.
I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S. You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police.
> I've never seen anyone "treated like a criminal" for being drunk, so long as they aren't violent or otherwise harming other people.
Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.
I suppose that might be true in some places, but I've lived in Europe and spent a fair amount of time in Mexico, and my observations in both were that the police carried much more serious weaponry under normal circumstances than you see in the US.
> I don't know where you live, but public nudity will get you in trouble just about anywhere in the U.S.
I live in Oregon, where we have a constitutional right to be naked in public.
> You just can't stroll through a mall naked, you will be forcibly removed and you will meet some police.
Malls are private property, not public property. The owners of the mall have every bit as much right to exclude someone being naked on their property as I do on my property.
> Same as above, stroll though a mall falling over drunk and you'll meet some police very quickly. Public drunkenness will get you in trouble in most public places that aren't a bar.
Again, malls are private property. And, I suppose I can’t argue with whatever your experiences were, but I see lots of drunk people wandering about on a typical Friday or Saturday and the only ones who have problems with the police are the ones who try to start fights, or who won’t leave private property when asked.
Interesting, but Oregon is rather progressive, which is why I think I'll eventually end up in or near Portland. I live in Arizona, it sucks.
> Malls are private property, not public property.
A bad example perhaps, substitute "the mall" with a stroll down a public street, in most states you'll be arrested.
Indeed. Get off the Eurostar at GdN and you will see soldiers patrolling the place with assault rifles. Same around the Tour Eiffel. And this is in France. No-one bats an eyelid. I've never seen routine patrols in any US city carrying M16s.
More to the point, you've been trained think that is normal, in countries where guns aren't legal, the very sight of a gun would strike fear into people.
I remember traveling to the UK from the US as a kid with my family. In the airport there were police holding fully automatic rifles. That scared me. I had never seen something like that. I was thinking "WTF is going on in the UK??". I of course had no idea that the UK was supposed to be "gun free".
The only time I remember seeing police/security people in the US with automatic weapons (in person) was at the airport right after Sept. 11th. I have seen police holding (semi)automatic weapons in several countries now. It is much scarier than the standard holstered pistol you see in the US.
* I can get real milk (see http://www.realmilk.com/) delivered to my door.
* Fireworks of all sizes and detonative power are readily available.
* There is no prohibition on the sale of alcohol or cigarettes to minors.
In addition:
* You can start a new business with relative ease.
* Uncomplicated income tax (no tax return, withholding, W2 forms, etc.)
* Police are generally friendly and there is no fear of being unjustly tazed or beaten.
You are reading reddit and digg too much.
Is it some kind of sarcasm or is it considered a great freedom when the kids can poison themselves all they want? I'm ok with an adult drinking himself into an early grave, but a 10 year old kid might not clearly understand the consequences of drinking/smoking.
On issues which do not threaten these goals, China may "seem pro-freedom". However, most of the important issues (free speech, rights of the accused, labor rights, religion, etc. etc.) do. And on those issues, they're decidedly less free.