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Comment by beachstartup | Hacker News Reader

among my peer group, uber/lyft have done more to curb drunk driving than anything else. in fact i'm going to go ahead and say it's probably the only thing that has had any real impact, since nobody i know has ever gotten a DUI and i've seen some really risky shit go down.

scare tactics and huge fines (associated with pullovers and checkpoints which are super low probability events) just don't work, that's for sure. i know of people who literally drove drunk for YEARS until uber came along, then stopped entirely.

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oh goodness yes

In my early twenties I would occasionally drive home “tipsy” — what felt like tipsy at the time; in retrospect, I was as drunk as a skunk. But there were no alternatives! I lived in a spread out western city, taxis were unheard of.

Threats and punishments don’t work on young people who have a psychological sense of invulnerability. The best way to curb drunk driving is through practical solutions that have immediate and obvious effectiveness.

All that said, I’m impressed with the psychology behind this program, and it’s nice to see policy that aims at curbing and solving destructive behavior instead of profiting off it in the form of fines.

> But there were no alternatives!

Are you seriously suggesting you had no better alternative than to drive drunk?

There were at least three alternatives available: Don't drink, get a ride with someone sober, or walk/bike/etc.

No alternatives within the acceptable cost window from his perspective. Of course there are alternatives, sleep on the street, whatever. But those aren't real when making impaired decisions.

> But those aren't real when making impaired decisions.

The comment I replied to was, presumably, written while unimpaired and with the benefit of hindsight.

That's why you make the decision to not get impaired in the first place, when deciding not to drink because there's no safe way to get home if you do. "If I drink this alcohol, I will then drink even more, followed by a nontrivial chance of murdering someone while trying to get home" should not be considered a choice that's acceptable to get wrong.

I've gone out for a few beers with co-workers and found myself having had a few more than I meant to on a couple of occasions. It's entirely possible to end up in no shape to drive with absolutely no ill intent.

To argue "but you knew when you were drinking that 3rd beer!!..." is all well and good, but the point of going out is to enjoy your friends company and have fun, not carefully monitor your alcohol consumption. The lack of taxis, buses, trains, etc in many states is a major contributor to drunk driving.

Huh. Looks like I misunderstood "occasionally" in the ancestor as "regularly". Yes, accidents absolutely can happen.

Just don’t drink at all when you drive? I don’t know why you think it acceptable to drink anything at all before driving.

I think it’s unacceptable for me to drink anything at all when I plan on driving. That way I have never ever been in a situation where I had to drive while being drunk. It’s a quite simple heuristic …

You're right, nobody should drink ever because they might at some point in the future have to drive. Problem solved!

I think it's acceptable to drink some amount before driving because I understand the physiological processes that turn alcohol into not-alcohol and therefore that at some point after I drink, I will be OK to drive. If that wasn't the case then having a drink would be a big decision, after which a person could never drive a car again.

The question is proximity. If we go for a few beers and then walk next door and have dinner (without beers) then I think it's safe to drive home. An hour drinking two beers, an hour eating dinner, and there should be little to no alcohol left in your system when you drive. Fine upstanding citizens do this all the time.

Drunk biking is illegal in many jurisdictions.

Walking and biking are not always options, especially when you can get a DUI for riding a bike drunk or a drunk-and-disorderly for being drunk in public (on your walk home).

From the standpoint of understanding human behavior at scale, the alternatives you offered are unworkable.

People are going to drink, they are going to do it in social environments beyond their homes, and they are going to return to their homes. A realistic solution involves recognizing these centuries-old truths and minimizing the inherent risk. Water flows downhill, and hitting it with a stick won’t change that.

> Members of Alcoholics Anonymous like to joke that when alcoholics get arrested for drunken driving enough times, it finally sinks in that they need to make a change in their life, so they quit…driving.

That is great in areas where Uber/Lyft operate, but in rural areas, there is no public transportation, no taxis, etc. In these areas, a designated driver is really the only responsible option.

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