Markhor (YC S15) Takes the Middleman Out of Designer Shoemaking | Hacker News Reader

Markhor (YC S15) Takes the Middleman Out of Designer Shoemaking

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79 pointskatm40 comments

Hi HN,

I’m the co-founder of Markhor. Our goal is to connect the customer directly with the craftsmen, who are making your products regardless of in which part of the world they're being made. Internet has enabled us to do so especially in the developing countries (this is where most of the luxury goods are made).

Today we are taking the first step towards our goal and launching our transparency project. We believe you have the right to know where and under what conditions your products are made and who is making them. We believe no one wants to wear a pair of shoes/clothing made by a child or a pregnant women under abusive conditions. Even though our craftsmen have been making European shoes for decades, it’s only now that we are able to connect them directly to the end customer.

So what transparency are we bringing to our own company? For every order or a pair of shoes, you’ll know about the craftsmen/women who made them. You’ll receive step-by-step details about the work in progress through email. This is our first step (in beta right now) in this direction and we're experimenting this with some of our customers and the Kickstarter backers.

You can see the email screenshot here: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0427/6309/files/Markhor-Tr...

Happy to answer any questions about our products or the transparency mission in general.

-SQ

I like the idea. Are the shoes welted?

Our derbies use the welt and we practice blake-stitching method of shoemaking.

Is it bad for pregnant women to work?

I was wondering the same. My wife is 7 months pregnant, working and happy that she is enabling people.

Making a handcrafted shoe is a physically intensive job so we are being careful towards this. Perhaps at some point, as the company grows we would be able to invest more in this area and see if it needs to be changed for some women.

I think you need to be pretty careful about this. If you're saying making shoes is too physically intensive for any pregnant women, that's a pretty blanket statement. Some women are active until quite late into their pregnancy, and the idea that they might not be capable of making a shoe could seem quite insulting.

Also, presumably part of the appeal of this product is that your workers will receive better conditions than in horrible sweatshops. If you're saying that pregnant women are often exploited, but you won't let them work for you (and I may have misunderstood this) then aren't you dooming them to the conditions they already suffer, and denying them the chance to work for a better employer - you, in this case?

Thanks, those are really good points and we'll take some time to think about how to communicate this better.

I mentioned pregnant women because the ones I've seen doing this work stand out vividly in my memory as examples of people who are currently working under abusive conditions and deserve much better. That's one of the reasons why we started Markhor to begin with and have been very careful. And of course they'll be welcome to make shoes for us if they want to, since the conditions of such work will be much better.

Appreciate your suggestion.

Great responses; this comment chain clarifies your position quite well.

Good luck!

Answering to 1st paragraph:

In our parts of the world (eastern Europe), but I'm sure all the more in 3rd world countries, women don't get insulted if somebody suggests they shouldn't work during their pregnancy.

For most of them, unfortunately, working or not working is not decided on a whim, but because they need to feed their family.

So if you were to suggest them not to work during their pregnancy, they would be all but insulted, most likely they would laugh, knowing it's not a question of preference.

@sidraqasim1, I think you could adjust your phrasing whenever talking about the "pregnant women" angle. Many women I know choose to work for the majority of their pregnancy.

I don't think you need any of that actually. Just make it all about connecting the buyer with the craftsman - putting a face and name to the product. That might well include a pregnant Chinese woman who is happy to keep making things until late in her pregnancy to prepare financially for their future.

I also don't think the middleman thing is worth mentioning either. You're the middleman now. The process might be more efficient and adjusted, but there's still a middleman!

My parents had a leather bag made for me in India many years ago, and brought back a photograph of the guy working on the stitching, etc. It's a nice idea.

I personally would love women (or anyone) to work if they want to.

Unfortunately, exploitative situations are common in the shoe industry in developing countries and some of the most vulnerable people end up working for too little, doing work that can be physically harmful to them, and not having the option to quit. That's the kind of situation I was talking about. We're in a position to give people new options, like working for a decent wage and being able to take time off if they need to.

I'm curious. Folks don't have the option to quit because they need the money, or because people will harm them if they do? In the former case, it seems that by excluding people from your marketplace - which according to you offers higher pay and better conditions than alternate modes of employment - you are harming them rather than helping.

Compare to a hypothetical situation of homejoy or similar service excluding black Americans from employment on the theory that black Americans are more likely to really need the money and therefore don't have the option to quit.

Of course, as a matter of PR, you'll certainly avoid problems caused by the copenhagen interpretation of ethics. http://blog.jaibot.com/the-copenhagen-interpretation-of-ethi...

"You'll receive step-by-step details about the work in progess through email."

Does this mean that every time someone orders a pair of shoes they'll be custom made? You'll keep no stock?

I really like the idea of bringing more transparency into the manufacturing process, so kudos on that. Hopefully you'll soon offer a vegan option too :-)

Right now this is in beta and we are testing this with 10 customers every week, where we make a new pair for them. In future we want to have this information available for ready to wear shoes as well and for everyone. Some people want to have all the information in just single email so we're learning from our experience and will launch what can work best for everyone.

We'll definitely look into vegan option soon. Thank you!

if you go the ready-made angle, it would still be cool to see the step-by-step story for the shoes, even if it's months old.

Could have a QR code or symbol or initials on the box or stamped on the sole/leather. Leads to a providence chain on the site explaining who was behind it and has some example photos/videos of them at work.

Beerenberg, who make jams/sauces here in South Australia, have something like this with their Providence Pathway. You enter a barcode from one of their products and can see who was working the line that day cooking and packaging the product, their photo, very specific testing details from that day, etc.

I'd like a vegan option, too.

Just bought a pair. Can't wait to see them in person!

Some advice:

- Don't call your leather full grain cow "crust". The word crust has negative connotations and should not be used for describing shoe leather.

- Describe your sole stitching pattern - are you Goodyear welting, Blake stitching, Blake-Rapid stitching? These techniques are typically associated with high-end handgrade or benchgrade shoes.

Good idea, especially the second one. Appreciate your advice.

Your second point is the first thing I looked for.

"No mention of Goodyear welting? These guys probably don't know anything about shoemaking."

The second pet peeve is calling them "designer shoes". Men don't buy "designer shoes". "Designer shoes" are for women.

"Designer shoes" for men (i.e. shoes manufactured by companies who traditionally sell fashionable apparel) have a distinctly bad reputation among shoe enthusiasts, who see them as more expensive versions of cheap shoes, with subpar craftsmanship.

Would it be possible to get them in different sizes? I have about a full size difference between my feet.

It's definitely cool to see that they're picking up steam/attention. I got a pair of chappals from them in the Kickstarter, and they're without a doubt the fanciest/best-quality sandals I've ever owned.

Customer service is top-notch as well. (Initial pair came in a bit small, I have kinda-wide feet. They were very attentive in responding and getting a wider pair out to me.)

It was also fascinating to see how well the Kickstarter campaign was run. Very personable, very friendly, lots of information along the way... other campaigns could definitely learn from them.

I'm definitely hoping to get a pair of loafers later, and my fiancée is waiting eagerly for a women's collection from them.

Seriously, I can't say enough good things about them. They've earned it.

I would be interested to know how they made the call to sell men's shoes instead of women's first. Not that I think it's a bad approach, I am just curious because I assumed this would be for women.

The shoes look really nicely crafted and it seems like a great cross-cultural thing. The black Chappals look fantastic. Kudos.

We started Markhor with a small group of craftsmen in our village. At that time (early 2012) they were making just men handcrafted shoes. So it was natural to start with just men shoes and master that before we add new products. In addition to me being CEO, 4 of our 7 team members are women - so we also feel left out. :)

But the good news is we have been working on our women collection for few months now and will be launching them very soon.

Bought a pair of black loafers from Markhor during the Kickstarter campaign, and they are both elegant and comfortable. Bought another pair shortly thereafter, and I've got my eye on the chappals.

Best of luck to you guys!

I mean, they replace the middleman, right? They don't take them out?

Takes the middle man out of designer shoe business and into the template shoe business.

I'm curious what the insert says the craftsman was paid net for the $300 shoes. $100?

How much do the craftsman make per month ? How many hours do they work in a week ?

Depending on the order size a craftsman make $400-800/month. Unfortunately right now our order size is not as big as we/craftsmen would like it to be, so they also have to work for other folks (middle men). Monthly average salary in Pakistan is $200-$300 and a craftsman usually works 45-50 hours/week. Sunday is full break and Friday is half day at most of the workshops.

Interesting. Based on my experience in the region, if you can truly deliver on $300/month for a shoe craftsman, it would a be a good thing. If you can bring this to $600/month that would be phenomenal.

I got my shoes hand delivered to my house in SF, that was quite the surprise. The craftsmanship is excellent

One of the huge advantages of (high-end) designer shoes is customisation. Do you have any plans for this? I like the look of your shoes and was considering buying however I didn't like either colour of leather. One of the things I love about Berluti is that their off the shelf range can still be purchased in a huge variety of leathers (or patina) and can still be customised to an extent. If you're building these shoes from scratch, I'm sure you'll be able to do even more.

Ignoring my slight complaint above, I love what you're doing - it seems you will be able to really make a difference, good luck!

I too would like to see more options.

Regqrding the "transparency" initiative, wouldn't it also make sense to let the buyer choose the shoemaker? (on which criteria, I have no idea, but my hunch is that they're not interchangeable, they must have some specialties or specific skills, etc.)

How is your company even competitive compared to other up-and-comers (Jack Erwin, Beckett Simonon, etc) that do exactly that but for lower prices?

Really, your shoes are pretty pricey ($225). For that price, I EXPECT to have some service (with the middle man if it needs to be).

Some questions that I really needed the answers to before I would even consider making a purchase: - Can I send back my shoes to be recrafted? - Do you offer any warranty (like a year or something?) You mention 100 days if I have not worn them. Regular $30 shoes last even longer, so 100 days is really not enough. - Some of the products that I looked at don't mention what type of leather you use. That's a bad sign. I expect it to be full grain leather. Otherwise, it's probably fake. - What stitching do you use? From pictures (nice design btw) I can tell that it's Goodyear construction but it needs to be explicitly mentioned.

From my own experience, custom made shoes take forever to complete. First, you need to get enough people to sign up for a specific style, then you need to produce them, and then you send it out. Good luck with it -- I have also been considering opening up a shoe making business. Great to see such company in YC.

I met Sidra and Waqas at a YC Dinner recently. A fantastic team and fantastic and sustainable shoes!

Regarding your recent Kickstarter campaign, first kudos to you, and well done.

However, I'm more than a little intrigued about the mechanics of HOW you pulled that off.

More specifically - I was under the impression that Kickstarter only raised funds for companies operating (or at least based) in the US, and a few other countries (all? in the West).

How was it possible then, for a company based in Pakistan, to raise money from Kickstarter?. Were there any particular obstacles that you had to overcome?

>Takes the middleman out of designer shoemaking

>I’m the co-founder of Markhor. Our goal is to connect the customer directly with the craftsmen

So ... becoming the new middleman in the process ...

The Derby is one of the best looking shoes I've ever seen. Very tempting!

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