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Comment by IshKebab | Hacker News Reader

> Find a way to live on half of your after-tax income

This is like "How to have an easy life":

1. Find a way to have plenty of money. 2. ...

I live on less than half of my (modest for a tech job) after-tax income. Paying student loans down aggressively has become a higher priority than having a bigger place or going out all the time or owning a nicer car. And once the student loans are gone, I intend to keep it that way. There's a lot of security to be found in frugality, it's not just about being ascetic for its own sake.

Are you supporting a husband/wife and/or any kids?

I make a typical tech worker salary between day job and a small amount of consulting I enjoy. My wife and I lead a very modest life. I work remotely. We save ~70% of our after tax income (and we fully fund tax advantages retirement accounts yearly). My mortgage took about 4 years to pay off. I'm 32. I will retire in 4-6 years (ie work on projects I want to full time, for no income if I prefer).

Where is your job headquarters and where are you living?

Agreed - I've done similar and you're a smart man. Few think it's possible, when it very much is.

> 1. Find a way to have plenty of money.

Shouldn't be a problem for a large portion of HN's readership. Those who aren't in school or building a company are likely to have a tech job that pays beaucoup bucks.

What's hard about it? Assuming the average here on HN is making $150k USD at a cushy programming job, let's say 100k after taxes. You're telling me you can't live off $4100~ a month? I live off $2500 a month easily (1500 rent, 500 food, 500 fun, debt free - no car - no other expenses) and the rest goes in the bank.

Yea I make like $50k pre-tax - where do I get this $150k salary? If I spent as much as you there would be nothing left.

Yea, some of these people seem pretty out of touch with reality outside of the Bay Area.

https://angel.co/jobs#find/f!%7B%22remote%22%3Atrue%2C%22sal...

you have to login to view this link, it's just filtering jobs by REMOTE + $125k+ = 255 startups.

Typical senior sysadmin/Linux admin pay is $100k-$130k in major metros.

Disclaimer: I'm a sysadmin/devops/infrastructure guy.

Isn't 150k a high salary for even the Bay Area?

Yes, Glassdoor says the average for a software developer in San Francisco is $94,000, senior software developer $116,000.

How much money do you need to live? $15k a year? How much can you generate: 30k a year? You're set.

This isn't talking about being wealthy - it's about considering alternatives and making good choices - if you can make more than $20k a year.

So step 1, don't have kids, step 2 don't get sick.

That's like saying win the lottery. Sure, it could work, but it's a lot of risk and does not scale.

No, it's just be frugal. You can still pay for insurance and kids.

In fact in TFA he says he has a kid.

So step 1 don't live in the US.

fixed that for you :)

Step 2: Do not get paid like in the US.

Step 3. Live in a country with a proper healthcare system (not the U.S.).

If you're getting sick each year (or a long-term illness) and it's costing you your $15k/yr savings, I think many people would be screwed when it comes to covering the costs.

Kids are a choice - but even with kids one can still live frugally or prepared. For example, choosing to not have a child until you've accumulated enough savings to cover all of the extra surprise costs that can occur that most people don't plan for when having a child.

My father worked two jobs to barely make ends meet for 8 years because his financial planning revolved around a family plan that he didn't actually plan for. My family plans are actually planned and revolve around my financial plans. One problem I see people make is that their financial plans revolve around their family plans (or lack thereof).

No surprise child at 18 years of age. No poorly-planned "I think I'm ready but I'm not actually ready" child at 21-23 either. I've seen very, very, very few parents under the age of 25 that a) planned for their child and more importantly b) properly planned for their child.

Lack of planning - or having a poorly crafted plan is what is "risky" or "doesn't scale".

As someone who has a serious medical condition and has altered my lifestyle to get healthier, I think "don't get sick" is more of a choice than most people seem to believe. And "don't get sick" -- or, more accurately, get my sorry ass well -- is, in fact, the big foundation of my financial plans. I am not where I want to be financially, but I am making poropgress towards my goals, including paying down debt.

  it's a lot of risk

What’s a lot of risk? Saving a significant portion of your income? Sounds less risky than “work until I’m 70 and then hope I have a good pension.”

Saving is not the issue. The issue is trying to retire on low incomes.

If something happens then finding a good job when your older and have not worked for a while is hard. So, IMO your better off trying to get a significantly larger nest egg than you think you need. That way compound interst works for you and you don't risk poverty while your old.

It does scale. Low expenses mean profitability can take major hits and still work - in both companies and humans.

That $15k figure includes healthcare paid for and its very possible for a family to raise children on less than $30k combined. Choosing your partner wisely? That's important.

I don't understand your incredulity. People have lived and self-actualized on less than the $15k/yr equivalent forever - when did it become impossible? And why do you think so?

Great I can pay 5 months of rent and nothing else.

Before I switched careers and started having an actual income, I was able to count on about half of $15k of income.

Dave Ramsey says, "Live like no one else, so you can live like no one else." He means, save aggressively and retire comfortably. I was already living like no one else: no car, no concerts, rarely seeing movies or eating out, no fancy clothes, avoiding doctors, less than $15 cell phone plan. And my expenses still exceeded my income. It is not so simple and easy for everyone to have savings.

Exactly - what people fail to realize is that $1 spent today means $4 more they'll have to save for $30. I equate EVERYTHIGN i purchase to cost 4x more than it does - because it costs me that in future value.

It is true that this is magic for the majority of the population.

However, for most of the members of this forum saving half your after-tax income is perfectly reasonable. I would wager that 90% of the people on this forum makes at least 2x the median income for their location (unless you're based in SF).

So for most people on Hacker News, saving half your post-tax income means just means living an average lifestyle at worst.

Really don't think it's that hard. Plenty of engineers pulling 6 figures, which is well over double the national average (even accounting for tax).

A lot of people would just prefer to spend that money living in a nice place, and enjoying certain luxuries, but it can definitely be done on the kind of income a lot of HN readers are earning.

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