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Comment by mahyarm | Hacker News Reader

Your a new grad from uvic, UBC or SFU. Recruiters from Seattle are contacting you. You interview at Seattle, and get a job offer. The Seattle recruiters tell you the visa process is easy with this TN thing. You have no idea what the job market is like so you go interview in Vancouver.

Your shocked to find out that the pay is literally half in Vancouver. Housing is also half in Seattle, everything is cheaper in Seattle. You really can't tell the difference between the two cities otherwise, and home is 3 hours away. You do the sensible thing and move to Seattle.

2 years later, you work for microsoft or some company down the bay area and start getting your green card. Later on you see that the average income in vancouver is comparable the average income of Reno,NV.

Anyone with half a brain who is from the area will move to Seattle.

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As a recent Waterloo grad, this definitely rings true with me.

I lived in Vancouver for most of my life, and love the city. I'd love nothing more than to live and work here all my life, but I'm really having trouble justifying not crossing the border and more than doubling my salary like most of my friends have done.

From my experience job searching so far, even without mentioning salary, the sheer number of interesting jobs is just sorely lacking, even when comparing to other Canadian tech hubs like Toronto. Seattle, SF, and other US cities are just in an entirely different league.

A quick, unscientific comparison on AngelList definitely matches my anecdotal observations: https://angel.co/salaries

To employers in Canada:

If you want world-class talent, you need to be willing to pay world-class salaries.

Slightly above market salary in Canada just isn't enough anymore, because market salary in Canada is just crap, and anyone who isn't a complete sucker knows this.

This isn't even about trying to steal talent from the states or elsewhere. Canada is literally bleeding talent from its own top schools. Anyone who's good enough to be hired across the border tends to end up leaving because they'd have to sacrifice so much potential earnings to stay.

And if you do offer a world-class salary, you need to advertise the crap out of it by giving us the cold, hard numbers. Otherwise candidates tend to assume that by "competitive salary" you mean competitive with the pitiful salary we usually hear when we apply to Canadian companies.

The major 'culture shock' difference I've heard from Vancouverites that have gone to Seattle is that the dense, urban lifestyle of Vancouver isn't quite as easy to take advantage of in Seattle. In Vancouver it's pretty easy to live without a car and bike everywhere in protected bike lanes, but Seattle is much more spread out, is more car oriented, with has weaker transit and cycling infrastructure, and the hills can be a drag.

This has not been a deal breaker for anyone I know in Seattle but they've mentioned their disappointment, having gotten used to a certain lifestyle in Vancouver. Depending your interests Vancouver's easily car free lifestyle might not matter at all, or it might be worth the paycut.

> Your [sic] shocked to find out that the pay is literally half in Vancouver.

I think this is changing. There are great new companies to work for in Vancouver who depend on access to top-tier talent and are willing to pay for it.

We [1] have hired several folks from SF and most of our alums tend to head straight to the Valley, so it's clear that we're competing on the global stage for talent. This by nature means average compensation that must be competitive. Others must be seeing this too.

[1] Axiom Zen: https://axiomzen.co

Weird, it's almost like Seattle/Vancouver is a natural experiment proving compensation matters. Now if only we could convince all the employers in the valley whinging about their inability to hire while paying maybe $150k/year in sf, where the median rent for a 1-bedroom is $3500 and condo buyers now are paying more than $1k/ft2 [2].

[1] http://sf.curbed.com/archives/2015/07/02/sfs_median_asking_r...

[2] http://www.sfgate.com/realestate/article/S-F-condo-market-pa...

Note that there are plenty of people who won't take a job in Seattle because they don't want to leave Vancouver for reasons of family, loyalty to country, fear of America. Yes, that last one is actually quite prominent amongst people I've asked.

That last one is actually one of my biggest concerns, and one of the primary reasons why I haven't given up looking for jobs in Canada yet.

I have a fair number of concerns about Canada, but personal safety usually isn't one of them.

I can't confidently say the same about the states though. A non-negligible percentage of the population there just seems actively hostile towards visible minorities. Being born in China myself, I'd definitely fall into the visible minorities camp in the US, and with the lax gun laws and whatnot, I'd be extremely worried for my life if some conflict arose between the US and China and I was still around.

I realize it's probably not a very rational fear, and I don't have any hard statistics to back any of it up. But safety of mind does have a tangible value to me. Whether or not it's worth more than half of my potential salary is another story though.

If it reassures you in any way, CA is 15% asian and SF is 35% (21.4% of chinese descent.)

imo, African-Americans and people who are visibly muslim or appear to so be to morons, such as Sikhs, get the bulk of the discrimination.

Fingers crossed neither our government nor the Chinese government are stupid enough to get into a shooting war. Both sides seem to bluster a lot but the ties that bind are massive exports from China to the US. I think the chances of serious conflict in a peaceful relationship spanning 4 decades continue to decrease.

Asian, grew up in the US. I've lived in New York, California, Texas, Florida. Never, ever felt my safety was an issue due to the color of my skin. Not only is safety not a concern, but I can't even remember the last time I felt discriminated against.

Good or bad, being the "model minority" in the US has its advantages.

It's really nothing to worry about. How much do you worry about vancouver east side too?

People who fear America move to Alberta, where the pay is 50% higher than Vancouver and living cost is roughly the same or cheaper.

Everybody being armed to the teeth makes me feel less safe, not more. I feel uncomfortable every minute I spend in the US.

I'm a Canadian by birth and when I graduated with my M.Sc. 10 years ago, the jobs I interviewed for in Canada were offering a salary half of their Canadian equivalents, never mind the difference in exchange rate. As a new grad with education debt to pay off, it's not hard to choose between $110kUSD and $50kCAD... I'm still in the U.S., haven subsequently gone through the TN1>GC>citizenship process.

Very eloquently put. I would be working in the states if I weren't so worried about my parents' health.

This accurately describes the situation.

Even if you land a higher paying job in Vancouver your salary is probably around 80% of what you would get in Seattle and you are paid in $CAD vs. $USD.

80% is a bit too generous based on my experience.

I'd be happy with 80% of market salary in Seattle if it means I could work in Vancouver. The reality is actually closer to 50% like the OP mentioned, even before taking into account exchange rates: https://angel.co/salaries

From the perspective of someone who wants to stay in Vancouver, this is just sad.

Agreed, and one of the factors is tax which is lower in the US.

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