Why Red Means Red in Almost Every Language
nautil.us
nautil.us
That's probably attributable to trichromacy, having three classes of retinal cones. The article points this out and correctly notes the complexity of visual circuitry without giving much detail. That's OK, the layers involved in translating retinal impulses, the exquisitely intricate slicing and dicing visual information into encodings for shape, motion, texture, surface, depth as well as color are truly mind-boggling.
That suggests to me that trying to ascertain linguistic influences on the visual system may be a form of "premature optimization". Of course it will be no surprise to find out there are cultural effects on verbal color description and communication conventions. OTOH it's also plausible to suppose that humans of various cultures can distinguish colors equally well when color naming is not demanded.
Artists who care about color don't care about the names colors are called by. What is important is being able to distinguish subtly different colors in order to be able to produce results. On the web #ff8844 doesn't have to have a name, it does the same thing anyway.
At the end of the day it's important to determine if language really changes what we see, or only the modes of communication, styles, fashions and all the layers piled on top of actual sensory experience.
Perhaps in everyday activity who cares if a shade is "orange" vs. "tangerine". When fine color discrimination really counts, in art, engineering, medicine, color names are secondary if necessary at all.
BTW if anyone wants to informally test their own color discrimination ability, I'd recommend looking here: http://www.xrite.com/online-color-test-challenge
The OP's link did give some information:
It does give a little information:
"A lower score is better, with ZERO being the perfect score. The bars above show the regions of the color spectrum where hue discrimination is low. "
"Your score: 6"
"•Your score: 6 •Gender: Male •Age range: 30-39 •Best score for your gender and age range: 0 •Highest score for your gender and age range: 1520"
It mentions it is the Farnsworth Munsell 100 Hue Test, which links to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farnsworth-Munsell_100_hue_tes...
The Wikipedia article links to a couple of images which indicate normality of the scale https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Farnsworth-Munsell3.png and
(Macbook Air, non-retina, Chrome 43.0.2357.134 (64-bit))
Probably similar to this illusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checker_shadow_illusion
I noticed I had to spend a lot of time in the bottom two rows near the ends--in the purples, for instance, it was near-impossible for me to tell the last three tiles apart.
I used to own a purple backpack that appeared bright blue under every single digital camera I tried, including fancy ones. Combinations of red and blue will appear purple in cameras, but real purples won't.
That was surprisingly enjoyable. I have perfect color vision! Finally, all of these years tweaking photos in Lightroom have paid off.
EDIT: changed i.e to e.g. Each row has different start and end hues that are fixed.
I thought the test was stressful in a weird sort of way. Had to turn the lights off in the room to help discern between the shades.
Not sure about the monitor - some Dell thing.
This study seems to show that language plays a role:
"The Himba tribe from northern Namibia, for instance, does not classify green and blue separately, the way Westerners do, but it does differentiate among various shades of what we call green. And when tested, members of the tribe, who are likely to have trouble with blue-green distinctions that most Westerners make easily, readily distinguish among greens that tend to look the same to Western eyes."[0]
[0]http://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/04/its-not-easy-se...
However, the image of color patches was quite blurry, color mottled and totally ambiguous. The RBG explication was interesting, showing three greens, 80/186/15, 80/187/15, 97/192/4. To make sense of it, in a paint program I made patches with these RGB values.
Seeing a difference between 97/192/4 and the others was easy, but telling 80/186/15 vs. 80/187/15 wasn't really possible. I have serious doubts anyone could reliably do so, regardless of ethnic background.
But it's no surprise. Is a typical computer display reliably capable of rendering that small a difference in green representation? Furthermore, in a printed format, how reliably can inks/dyes reproduce such a small color distinction, let alone the variables introduced by ink thickness, paper characteristics and so on.
To my mind, it's not convincing, there are just too many inadequately controlled variables. Determining the "nature vs. nurture" factors implicated in behavior as complex as color perception and discrimination capabilities requires a great deal more study to even know what it is we are studying.
What I found most fascinating was the screenshot in the Boingboing post of the person looking at green squares with one aqua. I suppose they could have a very high incidence of tritanopia, blue light insensitivity, and in fact the spectrum shown here[1] matches up rather nicely with what's in the screenshot. I'd be surprised if this wasn't taken into account, though.
[0]http://boingboing.net/2011/08/12/how-language-affects-color-...
[1]http://www.color-blindness.com/tritanopia-blue-yellow-color-...
Although it must be pointed out that Windows 16-colour VGA teal is a different colour to Windows 256-colour VGA teal.
The legacy of the 20th century is the belief that we are nearly completely creatures of culture rather than biology. We're slowly learning that it isn't true.
The interesting part is why we want to believe it. When you believe that human nature is mostly culture, you feel that you can change it with social action, education, and legislation. The surprises come when people realize that change is not as easy as we would like to think.
I'd say that the actual, scientific development of "nature vs. nurture" carries on healthily in academic spheres, while online you find plenty of hardcore zealots for either camp, from otherkin to racists talking about "human biodiversity" and advocating for gender roles.
In particular, this could explain many similarities that are usually ascribed to genetics, but are actually only there because of commonalities in environment.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-linguistic_onomatopoeias
1. Language shapes perception.
2. Biology shapes perception.
3. External reality shapes language.
4. External reality shapes perception.
I'm sure the precise form and extent of each of those "shapes" varies, and I can see why there might be a lot of dispute about those details. But while I can imagine some people wanting to strengthen some of those "shapes" to "determines", I don't see how anyone can reasonably deny any of those statements. (Yes, I think positions like "There is no, objective, external reality" are unreasonable.)
And so yeah, I learned a good bit from this article. And empirical study of words for colours is fascinating and should definitely be pursued. And I wouldn't have guessed that the range of basic colours is so wide. But I found precisely none of the results reported in that article surprising or worldview-shaking.
black – du white – gwyn grey – llwyd red – coch yellow – melyn blue – glas green – gwyrdd brown – gwinau (brown to auburn shades) or cochddu (brown to the dark reddish blacks) purple – porffor (also cochlas, which is a reddish blue) pink – pinc or gwyngoch (for white-ish reds or pale reds) orange – oren or melyngoch (for yellowish reds; a slight evolution from the conjunction of melyn-coch)
I'd suspect that oren and pinc are more recent evolutions in the lexicon, with gwyngoch and the associated red spectrum names, and gwyngoch and its cousins more tightly defining those parts of the spectrum, rather than having an all encompassing grouping for them. That's assumption and not based on evidence beyond my own knowledge of British linguistic evolution though, so take it with a pinch of salt.
It'd be interesting to look at common Brittonic and its modern descendants though and see if and when they change, and whether that has broader implications, similar to the point on "wine-dark".
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_term#Basic_color_terms [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistic_relativity_and_the_...
German has hellrot for example. (And dunkelrot, hellblau, dunkelblau, ... even blaugrün) They don't "count" as basic color terms though.
https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/hellrot https://de.wiktionary.org/wiki/blaugr%C3%BCn
Russian has a word for a color that is phonetically close to "red" (or even close to the french "rouge"), but it means what in English is called "ginger" and is used predominantly for hair color.
Also, learning French and English in my childhood that these languages do not have a special widely used word for "light blue" as in Russian.
But as for the "light blue" issue, what sort of shade are you referring to? Is it голубой (goluboj)? There is Azure--a Latin-root word that came to English through French--or Cyan--a word of Greek origin.
Humans evolved color chunking to be able to talk about it.
"His professors and textbooks taught that people could only recognize a color as categorically distinct from others if they had a word for it."
"Scientists had no reason to suspect that cultures divvied it up in similar ways."
And then, the conclusion:
"Cultures seemed to build up their color vocabularies in a predictable way."
As humans, we make things up. There is no getting away from it, due to our limited perspective. Sometimes I muse on the fact that we once thought the Earth was flat because at some point, someone essentially "lied".
It could also be the case that Homer was using a complex metaphor that related the mystery of alcohol, and maybe it's brooding hangover to the dark color of the liquid, and linked that to the dark quality of the sea at times, for example before a storm when the sky is overcast.
Great article!
http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/hoffman_01_13/
<q> We may never know for sure, but one peculiar fact casts the mystery in an interesting light: there is no word for “blue” in ancient Greek.
Homer’s descriptions of color in The Iliad and The Odyssey, taken literally, paint an almost psychedelic landscape: in addition to the sea, sheep were also the color of wine; honey was green, as were the fear-filled faces of men; and the sky is often described as bronze.
It gets stranger. Not only was Homer’s palette limited to only five colors (metallics, black, white, yellow-green, and red), but a prominent philosopher even centuries later, Empedocles, believed that all color was limited to four categories: white/light, dark/black, red, and yellow. Xenophanes, another philosopher, described the rainbow as having but three bands of color: porphyra (dark purple), khloros, and erythros (red).</q>
I know maybe a dozen words for colors, but that doesn't prevent me from seeing the differences between the different tones in a pantone catalogue.
edit: or maybe you're not Czech and these months have different word in your language :)
http://nautil.us/issue/26/color/why-red-means-red-in-almost-...
(without the -rd on the end). This link works correctly on all devices.