Shooting Down Drones
schneier.com
schneier.com
The operator should not have had been flying their craft on another's property.
Edit: OK This is getting downvoted, so I'll clarify. I'm not saying I like the fact that this is how the law in the USA is, but that's how it is. It is legally considered an aircraft. He shot down an aircraft.
Does it need to change? Yes. Is it changed now? No.
Edit 2: links for people interested. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle > is an aircraft without a human pilot aboard https://www.faa.gov/uas/model_aircraft/ https://www.faa.gov/uas/publications/model_aircraft_operator...
[1] http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2014/05/30/317074394/drone...
There's also limitations to how tall you can build structures, even on your own property, so erecting a giant tower to claim more airspace isn't a solution!
Bonus Trivia: Few homeowners own the ground beneath their home unless they have something called "Mineral Rights".
No, it is an aircraft in any case. It may be an improperly-operated aircraft, which would open the operator up to sanction, but I'm pretty sure that you aren't allowed to shoot down improperly-operated aircraft over your property, including in the altitude range in which the airspace is within the scope of your legal property rights.
http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2014/12/02/are-drones-alw...
You don't have to be above 400ft to be an aircraft. You have to be above 400ft for the FAA to give a shit about regulating what you do. If you shot down an airplane landing on your field you'd be in trouble.
I don't agree with it but that's how it is.
http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsid=76381
"Myth #3: The FAA doesn't control airspace below 400 feet
Fact—The FAA is responsible for air safety from the ground up. Under 49 U.S.C. § 40103(b)(2), the FAA has broad authority to prescribe regulations to protect individuals and property on the ground and to prevent collisions between aircraft, between aircraft and land or water vehicles, and between aircraft and airborne objects. Consistent with its authority, the FAA presently has regulations that apply to the operation of all aircraft, whether manned or unmanned, and irrespective of the altitude at which the aircraft is operating. For example, 14 C.F.R. § 91.13 prohibits any person from operating an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another."
I would say in this case, it's reasonable to assume a hovering drone with a camera, pointed at your house is reckless enough to warrant suspicion from the homeowner, and allow him to act accordingly.
The operator of the drone was definitely operating outside of the regulations in place, but that doesn't make it any less an aircraft. He should have been within line of sight of his craft. If he wasn't then the operator was breaking regulations.
https://www.faa.gov/uas/model_aircraft/ >Don't be careless or reckless with your unmanned aircraft – you could be fined for endangering people or other aircraft
So the operator could get fined, but does that give the home owner the right to shoot down an aircraft? We'll see as this issue plays out in court.
If you want to get absurd then give me a piece of paper and a minute and I can make you an "aircraft" that has a value of $0.05 or less. Just because it's flying through the air it's not necessarily an "aircraft".
Here's another "aircraft" according to your definition: http://www.instructables.com/id/Rubberband-Helicopters-step-...
The point is that there are certain classes of aircraft with varying degrees of certification for airworthiness and if it doesn't fall into any of those classes I'm not sure that I agree that it's an "aircraft" at least in the legal sense.
If you really want to argue that anything which is in the air and not touching the ground is an aircraft then I am an aircraft. Every time I jump off the ground.
So are all these crazy mountain bikers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsiEUx6Zwrg
I mean, sure they're on a ballistic trajectory but they're still up in the air in an unsupported fashion. Motocross riders now need pilot's licenses.
I'm all for a good reductionist argument, probably moreso than the average "reasonable" person. But the mental and linguistic gymnastics you're doing to make an RC toy an aircraft are reaching, and not just a little bit.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft
Drones, also have the requirement to be autonomously controlled (UAV), none of your examples meet both requirements. Most don't meet the first, otherwise shooting skeet would be illegal, because they generate more lift then most your other examples.
OK so in that case the paper airplane is an aircraft provided that you fold it to have an airfoil. Done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Dof_Ks-f9U
Also, if it needs to have a power source, the rubber band helicopter or the rubber band airplane is super legit. That's a power source.
My point isn't that I really think that these are aircraft. It's that trying to apply the rules for "mechanical devices which carry people in them" to things which don't carry people is pretty silly.
1) Model Aircraft (your first FAA link) are not "Aircraft" in the sense of operating under the rules and regulations of private aircraft or commercial aircraft.
2) Within the definitions of personal property, the owner has rights about what they can and cannot do to other property that intrudes on that space.
So in the 2nd case, if a "toy" (aka Model Aircraft) was on their property intentionally (which is to say the owner put it there), there is a bunch of case law that says that can impound it or do what ever they want with it. From errant baseballs breaking windows to toy airplanes (or rockets) which land on their land. Further the owner is liable for any damage it does. So in that regard the landowner was well within their rights to "shoot"[1] a toy airplane out of the sky above their house if they felt threatened. The means employed, a shotgun, only has an effective range of about 250' so by definition the flying vehicle was within the 400' exclusion zone. It doesn't matter if it was a $1500 quad-copter drone or a $1.50 balsa wood wind up airplane.
But then there is the whole question of police usage and surveillance. So for a police unit to be lawfully surveilling you under the 400' limit they need a warrant (currently). Its possible it extends farther than that given opinions like this one [1]. And as the article points out, if you can't tell its the police you can't really be expected to know you aren't within your rights in disabling it.
[1] "Held: Where, as here, the Government uses a device that is not in general public use, to explore details of a private home that would previously have been unknowable without physical intrusion, the surveillance is a Fourth Amendment "search," and is presumptively unreasonable without a warrant. Pp. 3-13." - http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/533/27.html
The tl;dr of that - it is a bad idea to trespass in Texas as the threshold for a property owner being able to justify a shoot first and ask questions later policy is pretty low.
In all my years living here, I can't recall a single incident in the news where a property owner who used deadly force against a trepasser was actually indicted by a grand jury. I'm obviously not trying to imply that it couldn't possibly happen though.
This impacts the legality of shooting at the aircraft. To what degree this impacts will be up to the courts and the attorneys.
Of course, the shooter was an idiot for shooting at something in the sky, where the bullets would remain stable and lethal for potentially miles. He should absolutely be punished for that, but not necessarily for destroying the UAV operating illegally aside his house.
Flying things under human control are unusual. They are not acts of nature, they are acts of Human-kind.
At the very least: if you are going to fly, and bother people, expect a bothering response.
(Just adding a bit from the other side of the story)
[1] http://www.wdrb.com/story/29670583/update-drone-owner-disput... [2] http://www.wdrb.com/story/29675427/drone-owner-responds-to-c...
Sounds like not quite trivial to me, though having never shot a gun, I'm not certain at all.
[1] http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/07/kentucky-man-shoo... [2] http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.shotgun-shells.html
40 yards (120 feet) is about the effective range for birdshot. Also at 40 yards your spread is about 40 inches. It's not a flamethrower. :-)
Yes. If you want your pellets to go inside of a goose and harm it, then your birdshot is only effective at about 40 yards. Further than that, you won't be bringing a bird down, because the birdshot isn't hitting with enough force anymore. But you aren't shooting a bird. You're shooting a drone.
Some birdshot hitting and damaging the propeller is enough to bring the drone down. It doesn't need to penetrate and because it doesn't need to penetrate, it doesn't need to be within effective range.
edit: I see someone else posted similar points while I was digging up the links.
The question is "how?" How do we make laws like that? For example, contract law is often very reasonable and frequently aims for fairness. How do we get other purely material disputes between people to mirror this rationality?
Frankly I would prefer a world where the solution to dickheads messing around with drones is that the drone gets blown out of the air to a world where the government decide that drones need to be heavily regulated. (A place I rather suspect we'll end up in if this behaviour becomes widespread.)
"what did the perpetrator look like" "well. it was hovering and had a camera and just hung out in my backyard. i asked it to leave but it didnt."
so then do the police launch a full-scale invasive search of the neighborhood to find evidence of a drone owner? then we have two problems --- we have government overreach or we have unbridled menacing and trespassing, unless i'm failing to see a mediating position.
A more useful police function is to investigate and prosecute offences after the fact. If you know you won't get away with doing something, you'll be discouraged from doing it. In this case, what are the cops going to do? How about follow the drone, figure out who it belongs to, then go and have a word with them? Is 'conducting a criminal investigation' government overreach?
The only way around that is to make the gun yourself, which you can legally do, but you then can't sell it.
Technically not a license plate, but a lot closer to one than what drones carry.
It's a lot further from the wild west than politicians and the media would have you believe in the wake of a mass shooting.
Unless you live in a state that requires registration of firearms, the government doesn't just find out who owns one. That isn't to say there isn't some legal mechanism by which the government can get that info from the shop that sold it. If you truly want an anonymous firearm, buying one in a face-to-face transaction is the closest your typical person will reasonably get, and that still requires you to show some form of ID (a drivers license or a carry permit, typically) to the seller. At least that's how it works in South Carolina.
as usually, the whole drone community is going to suffer because of few arrogant d*ckheads. initially i was pro-drone, but after couple of similar videos showing how some owners of drones behave (privacy is unknown term for quite a few), I don't have that much sympathy anymore.
Regulate, allow in some areas but under strict rules, punish harshly those who ignore rules. When one wields ability to potentially kill few hundred people and do 200 mil USD damage (or much more, imagine falling plane hitting some urban area), personal sympathies are irrelevant.
http://time.com/3433295/yellowstone-drone-crash/
I get the desire to take cool pictures, and drones open up the ability to do things with video and photography that in the past was only accessible to people paying lots of money. But it's also causing problems that need to be solved.
In a rural area, I'd think the most he could be charged with is property damage, but a drone hovering at a low altitude over private property must in my view (not sure about legally) be considered trespassing, which would be a mitigating factor. If a robot with a camera rolled or walked onto your property, what are your rights? The same should apply to flying drones, at least below a certain altitude.
This is of particular personal interest to me, because I fly gliders and sometimes we end up making emergency landings on other people's property when the weather doesn't quite cooperate with us.
My understanding of the law there is that I'm liable (and covered by my insurance) for any damage I cause to their property in the course of landing and retrieval, but the property owner can't stop me from retrieving my aircraft, and can't intentionally damage it.
Now, the fact that it's technically an emergency landing does change things a bit, for example my actions aren't a crime the way normal trespass would be. But I don't believe it changes the property owner's rights and responsibilities.
I had a neighbor who was shooting his assault rifle into the ground in his back yard (a typical suburban neighborhood). After a few shots, the police were called, and they showed up with an entire SWAT team. Confiscated his weapons and threw him in jail for a couple days. He wasn't waving it around, and wasn't threatening anyone. It was only 3 rounds, actually, but it was enough.
If he was using birdshot, there would be no risk to anyone past a few hundred feet. If there was a risk, trap/skeet would not be possible in most of the places where you can shoot it.
Similarly, if someone is flying a kite and it is over your backyard and you shoot the kite with a bb gun enough to bring it down, what would the police do? Is a kite any different than a drone, legally speaking?
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/field_offices/fsdo/atl/l...
Aside from that, the faa and industry, et al, need to quickly come to grips with their proliferation and need to establish parameters, whether licensing, insurance, privacy protections, etc, before things escalate and retaliation stunts people's appetite for drones.
I don't think the FAA wants that to happen, but I might be wrong. I know they are attempting to define drones in the air space, however it's a long and very complicated issue, mostly because of the who owns the different airspace and how they regulate hobbyists vs commercial.
The issue is that there is a lot of interplay between the FAA (internal between ATO and other groups) and the lobby for model aircraft association. Currently much of the non-commercial flight falls under their jurisdiction. The issue is that many people who buy drones don't go through the full process and aren't really involved so they don't know hobbyist rules for drones. http://www.modelaircraft.org/
Commercial operation of a drone however, requires a much longer process.
"Why do commercial operations require a different process?
All operations conducted in civil airspace must meet minimum levels of safety. Public UAS operators have the ability to self-certify their equipment and personnel, but civil operators are certified by the FAA. We believe civil operators will benefit from the collaboration between the FAA and the public operators. Presently, the FAA is drafting a rule to address small UAS (less than 55 lbs.). Until that rule is promulgated, anyone wishing to operate a UAS for purposes other than hobby/recreational must obtain a grant of exemption issued under Section 333 or type and airworthiness certificate." https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/#qn14
That could possibly include you if you post your video to youtube and make money off of it. http://motherboard.vice.com/read/the-faa-says-you-cant-post-...
Again much of this is being flushed out as we work through it.
Much easier would be hosing it with water.
Much geekier would be a low power jammer.
However smart or self aware our household bot becomes, their brain should probably be stored on Dropbox or S3. Their thoughts might as well run in Lambda or Ethereum.
I mean, I get it. It's the wild west still and there's frontier towns popping up all over the place. But this man is anti-social, and trouble, for anyone living in a currently active century.
>> "Are you the son of a bitch that shot my drone?" one said, according to Merideth.
I think if four people turn up looking for a fight, you are entitled to defend yourself.
People are focused on the shooter because abuse of a deadly weapon is a serious crime. The drone operator's crime was extremely minor by comparison, if any.
It's not "entitlement" to be appalled that someone used deadly force against your property in a completely inappropriate and likely criminal manner. You don't lose all your rights when you do something wrong, and if someone escalates the situation far beyond where it was, that's a major problem.
If you know of a non-permanent way to bring one down I'd be happy to hear of it.
Yes, I know that within most municipalities you cannot shoot guns, but if you are in a rural setting outside of the city limits, you most certainly can shoot as long as you take proper safety measures. Shooting a shotgun into the air is not a danger to anyone. By the time it comes down it'll have the ballistic properties of a handful of BBs thrown into the air.