More Range in Chevy's Volt Means You Hardly Ever Need Gas | Hacker News Reader

More Range in Chevy's Volt Means You Hardly Ever Need Gas

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31 pointsprostoalex48 comments

I own a 2015 Chevy volt. When running on gas, the mileage is ok, but far surpassed by most anything hybrid. When running on electric, I calculate the mileage by electrical charge price vs the gas price and end up getting 120-150 mpg equivalent. Since mostly we drive around the city/suburbs, we only use the gas engine for airport runs or long trips. Sure I could have an all electric car (and I do) but it would get annoying having to rent a car whenever I wanted to go to another city.

EDIT: The only way the volt makes sense is if you can charge it daily and drive mostly on full electric, and still need to periodically take road trips.

It seems like it might make sense to have a detachable (gas) engine. If you could remove it for your city driving, you'd save weight (== increased mileage). Then you'd fit it back only for the long trips. Not sure how practical such an arrangement would be.

The worst of both worlds: (1) If you rarely use the gas engine, you are wasting electrical power hauling around a gas engine and gas tank (2) If you often use the gas engine, you are wasting gas hauling around extra-large batteries.

I assume you don't have a spare tire in that case. Or jumper cables?

Or a wife/husband?

and how much does the OP weigh?

I weight too damn much :-), but I'm still a lot lighter than a four-cylinder engine and transmission.

I don't understand the rationale of your comments. An electric only car would need a larger (heavier) battery for a longer range too, is that also wasteful in your view?. We need technologies like these to fill the gap until we can depend solely on batteries

There's nothing irrationale about that. One disadvantage of the battery technology is that "half-filling" a battery doesn't half its weight. A Tesla-sized battery pack for 100 km daily trip wastes lot of energy (several hunders of kilograms of dead weight, even regenerative brakes cannot recovery all the kinetic energy.)

It would take an in-depth study to be sure, but we may already live in a world where a hybrid is better than a conventional car on most measurements, and if we don't we're heading in that direction.

The basic theory is that an ICE that only need to cover part of the driving range can be more efficient than one that needs to scale from pulling out of the drive to speeding down a freeway overtaking a lorry at short notice. Bus manufacturers were experimenting with flywheels and all sorts of crazy tech to take strain of the main engine because this hit them hardest for various reasons.

As battery and electric car tech improves and lowers in price, purr electric cars will encroach further onto hybrids, but the same forces will let hybrids encroach further onto ICE territory at the same time.

A lot of people still like to take longer trips (400 or so miles) in their automobiles. Not as often as they run around town, obviously, but these are things people think about when purchasing a vehicle. So, while hauling around a gas engine and tank seems wasteful, people are not yet willing to forego having a car with decent enough range to take them away for vacation.

For instance here in the Mountain Time Zone we pretty much get 1 1/2 cities per state and they're not small states so there's usually monthly trips of ~200 miles (± driving in the city).

Sounds like a hybrid isn't for you, then. The good thing is other manufacturers make pure gasoline or pure electric cars, so there is choice.

For some of us, a plug-in hybrid is a great choice, at least until the range improves on pure electric cars.

To clarify, I think hybrids are great and electric cars are great. I think it's wasteful to take a hybrid and mostly use it as an electric car.

Specifically, in the linked article they are trumpeting increased electric range in the Volt. It makes more sense to get a Leaf and rent a Prius for long range driving.

> If you often use the gas engine, you are wasting gas hauling around extra-large batteries

... but batteries can still provide lot of gas-free kilometers before becoming a dead weight, making big contribution to your mpg.

Doesn't the car use regenerative braking? In which case, the electrics are helping you even when using gas.

Alternately, the best of both worlds. The battery pack in the Tesla is some 1300lbs. The Volt's battery pack is 400lbs. That's 900lbs less of battery you're accelerating around all day, and contributes to the fact that the Volt weighs some 1200lbs less than the Tesla.

>you are wasting electrical power hauling around a gas engine and gas tank

The Volt weighs much less than the Tesla. The reality is that battery tech is expensive, heavy, and delicate so hybrids still make sense. A near empty gas tank weighs nothing and a near empty battery weighs the same as a full one. This stuff gets a bit more complex as you look into how it really works. Not to mention the Volt comes in at pricing that's half or even 1/3rd the price Tesla, depending on packages/trim.

The Volt is a great concept and the next logical step in hybrid technology. It leans more on the battery powered aspect, than say, the Prius, which is still primarily powered by gas. We're just not at the point where a full electric is in the cards for most people.

It will be interesting to see how the different approaches develop. While there's something to be said for the "purity" of an all-electric car, there's also some reasons to think a plug-in hybrid with a moderate size battery may be the better choice for the mainstream.

- Batteries are expensive and buying a vehicle with batteries that are large enough to cover most uses will often be a more expensive approach than hybrid.

- There's a lot to be said for a vehicle that isn't range-limited even if it's normally used as a second vehicle to drive around town.

This is only a problem if you haven't taken other measures to lighten the car to compensate.

Edit: That also depends on the weight of each component. If the gas engine is not expected to run all the time, it can be smaller/lighter than an engine in a comparable car. If it is just a generator, which it seems to be, then a whole lot of complexity is saved, beginning with the transmission. Electric engines are very small for their power, which also helps.

I don't know how true this is... but I've read that gas can go bad. Would this be a problem for the Volt?

6 months is not a problem and I predict that 12 months is safe with optional small enhancing chemicals.

STA-BIL will keep it good for 12 months.

People commenting on the original article say there are sensors that keep an eye on the fuel and run the gas motor as necessary to use gas before it goes bad (water accumulates, etc.).

The volt will run the gas engine to keep the gasoline from goin bad.

The Volt also has a specially sealed gas tank which greatly lengthens the time that the gas stays good.

The first few cars I've owned were GM cars, and each of them had numerous problems. I'm happy as hell with the Honda Accord that I have, and lately I've been keeping my eye on Tesla, eagerly awaiting their lower priced models that'll become available soon.

Even though I've more or less sworn off American cars from the Big Three, I'm happy to see them making these kinds of improvements as it's slowly changing my mind about them.

The Big Three have changed significantly within the past ten years. GM had a huge culture change and went from producing pretty terrible vehicles to making pretty nice ones. Look at Cadillacs and the new Camaros. Chrysler is now owned by Fiat, who is very, very motivated to make it in the American market. Can't say much about Ford, though. Never owned one, so I don't read up on them. But I have high hopes for cars like the Volt. GM really wants the car to do well.

> Running on gas alone, the car delivers a highly impressive 42 mpg

Seriously? That's 50.4 MPG in the UK. My 7 year old Civic gets 45-60 MPG (UK) depending on how I'm driving and traffic.

You need an apples to apples comparison. Many people claim to get higher MPG than the car's official ratings. You can't directly compare your own experience with the standardised MPG testing. As you say, traffic and driving affect it. Maybe the car would get more than 42mpg with your driving conditions.

A) Civics are generally regarded as having very good mileage.

B) Civics weigh 500kg less.

C) Again "on gas alone" which is not the expected mode for a Volt

A yes

B So? That just means their car needs to go on a diet. If those extra kg got us something then you might have a point.

C The point is to maximize distance traveled per energy used while providing decent range and carrying capacity. The point isn't to build systems that have a lot of downsides(complexity and weight) for no benefit.

those extra kgs get you 53 miles gasless.

Unlike your Civic, the Volt has to lug around a huge battery, a complex powertrain, and two high-torque motors. Its curb weight is about 40% higher than a 2008 Civic.

BTW, did you mean a Civic Hybrid? Because the US EPA estimate for even the most frugal of 2008 non-Hybrid Civics is 29 MPG combined. If you are driving so as to coax 50 MPG US out of a 2008 Civic, you will love the Volt.

But on the other hand...

My 1994 Nissan Sentra got 35-38mpg and my 2001 VW GTI (with a V6!) is still being driven by my bro-in-law and gets 30mpg highway with 260,000 miles on the original powertrain.

The fact is that cars are far more complex, far heavier, and have bigger engines today than they used to, at the expense of gas mileage.

Since he mentions the UK I assume he means the diesel version which is estimated at 60MPG. The latest version of that car is estimated to come in around 78MPG.

Sorry, should have mentioned - it's a 2.2L diesel.

I think you're using highway-driving only. The estimate for the latest Civic I could find (2012) is 67.3MPG UK (55.9MPG US) combined, using a British cycle. This is diesel, which has a higher energy density than gas, so the equivalent in gas would be 49MPG. But also note that european MPG measurement cycles are much more generous than US ones: the EPA measure would be much lower in the US.

All in all the Volt probably is almost the same as and possibly better than, the Civic in gas-only driving, despite the fact that it has to lug around an additional electric motor and battery.

You might be thinking about miles per UK (Imperial) Gallon, rather than US Gallon. 1 UK gallon = 1.2 US gallon. Even a new 2015 Civic only gets around 32 Miles per US gallon.

That's the gas only mpg, which is a near useless metric for a plug-in hybrid. In my use-case I would almost never burn gas in a Volt. The 2016 Volt gets 53 miles on battery alone. That's what I drive during the entire work week. Considering you would plug this thing in at night, typical buyers would almost never be using the gas engine.

This should be more than enough for the average commute. Considering the fact that running an ICE for short trips is very hard to the engine, it should help with the repair bills too.

The only question is, how much for the battery replacement?

My wife just returned from a wedding in Maine. Flew to Boston, drove up in a Volt. Took 7 gallons of gas. 6 months between fillups is possibly an exaggeration - 3 days is more like it.

3 days? I make it 2 weeks in a 20 year old car. Sure, if you're doing a lot of driving it won't last 6 months. But for typical everyday use, I bet that's not an exaggeration (certainly not for my use).

>I make it 2 weeks in a 20 year old car.

I used to go for two weeks between fill-ups in a '78 Buick but that was mostly becuase it had a 24-gallon tank (and I only drove about 20 miles a day).

Was that a round trip? That's 71 miles to the gallon if so. If not then it's 35 miles per gallon which sounds pretty dreadful.

How would you compute the MPG for that? You have no idea where in Maine they drove to. From Boston to the northernmost town in Maine is 475 miles, so that would be 68 MPG one way.

I have had a Volt since 2012, and typically fill it up about once every 4 months.

I think that stat is for people who use the car for their daily commute recharging the batteries overnight.

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